Everything Pascal Siakam

[A.I]

VC never had a team as good as the 2014-2020 Raptors teams. Not even close. He also never had a teammate as good as DeRozan. The best player that he's played with when he was here was Antonio freakin Davis.

What if they switch spot? put Lowry on the early 2000's Raptors teams and VC on the 2014-2020 Raptors teams. Do you think the Raptors make the playoffs with Lowry as the man on that early 2000's Raptors teams?

If prime VC played for the Raptors in 2014-2020 they probably would've had multiple championships.

Not with the Warriors around, they wouldn't beat the Lebron, Kyrie, Love team either.

[The Great One]

Not with the Warriors around, they wouldn't beat the Lebron, Kyrie, Love team either.

The Warriors were a non factor in 2020 were they not? 2020 Raptors team was a heck of a team. They just didn't have a go to guy. Now imagine Vince on that team?

[A.I]

The Warriors were a non factor in 2020 were they not? 2020 Raptors team was a heck of a team. They just didn't have a go to guy. Now imagine Vince on that team?

You said multiple championships from 2014-2020 lol.

One championship if things went they're way? Sure.

[Bendit]

Lowry is basically Mike Conley East. That's another great alternate universe "what if" scenario. Their paths have been inter-wined with front-office decisions, choosing between the two, directly affecting each others' career and legacy.

Not sure if you are referring to Lowry originally being drafted by the Grizz who then the following year drafted Conley ... which led to Lowry being traded to Houston. Irony that he might have been sent back to the Grizz for ... Conley ... as the world turns.

[TrueTorontoFan]

The Warriors were a non factor in 2020 were they not? 2020 Raptors team was a heck of a team. They just didn't have a go to guy. Now imagine Vince on that team?

I wonder how different thinks would have been if we didn't have the long break from the season because we were rolling that year going into the end stretch

[planetmars]

VC never had a team as good as the 2014-2020 Raptors teams. Not even close. He also never had a teammate as good as DeRozan. The best player that he's played with when he was here was Antonio freakin Davis.

What if they switch spot? put Lowry on the early 2000's Raptors teams and VC on the 2014-2020 Raptors teams. Do you think the Raptors make the playoffs with Lowry as the man on that early 2000's Raptors teams?

If prime VC played for the Raptors in 2014-2020 they probably would've had multiple championships.

Did Kyle play with much better teams though? DeMar plays the same position as Vince, so who's the PG now?

Just look at that 2016 roster: Kyle, DeMar, Carroll, Scola, JV, Patterson, Ross, Biyombo, CoJo, JJ, Wright, Powell
.. was it really that great? That team won 53 games, was 2nd in the East, and got to the ECF.

It's definitely a good thought exercise, but if you replaced Kyle with Vince that year, I don't think they get to 53 wins. And I definitely don't see them making the ECF. Imagine CoJo as your primary PG playing like 40mpg lol

[The Great One]

You said multiple championships from 2014-2020 lol.

One championship if things went they're way? Sure.

2019 and 2020.

[The Great One]

Did Kyle play with much better teams though? DeMar plays the same position as Vince, so who's the PG now?

Just look at that 2016 roster: Kyle, DeMar, Carroll, Scola, JV, Patterson, Ross, Biyombo, CoJo, JJ, Wright, Powell
.. was it really that great? That team won 53 games, was 2nd in the East, and got to the ECF.

It's definitely a good thought exercise, but if you replaced Kyle with Vince that year, I don't think they get to 53 wins. And I definitely don't see them making the ECF. Imagine CoJo as your primary PG playing like 40mpg lol

Vince and DeMar are both 2 and 3 so position is not a problem.

Vince's starting PG back in the early 2000's was Alvin Williams. Is he really that much better than Cory Joe? they're the same imo.

Also, no disrespect to Antonio Davis but JV's better than him. Ross is better than him. Heck I'd even take Powell over him.

[A.I]

2019 and 2020.

VC and DeMar wouldn't win in 2019. Their positions/playstyles overlap. Vince could defend, Derozan was a bad defender.

Lowry is a good defender, Kawhi is one of the best in the league.

If you dont do the trade, you also don't get Danny, who was a fantastic shooter and defender as well.

[G__Deane]

I guess the uncomfortable truth is that our franchise doesn't actually have a GROAT. Kawhi is an asterisk, and Lowry benefited directly from that asterisk.

We don't have an all-time great here, several potentials left too early in Vince, McGrady (who didn't really ascend to great heights elsewhere) and Kawhi (ditto as of yet).

But even if the bar is comparatively lower, every team has their team-personal G(R)OAT.
After Kyle, Kawhi and Vince, I guess we'd have DeMar and Bosh as greatest Raptors, just not that great ....

[JawsGT]

Vince and DeMar are both 2 and 3 so position is not a problem.

Vince's starting PG back in the early 2000's was Alvin Williams. Is he really that much better than Cory Joe? they're the same imo.

Also, no disrespect to Antonio Davis but JV's better than him. Ross is better than him. Heck I'd even take Powell over him.

C'mon man, Ross is absolute garbage next to Davis. And powell is also 10 times better than Ross. Ross is a total bum lol.

[A.I]

We don't have an all-time great here, several potentials left too early in Vince, McGrady (who didn't really ascend to great heights elsewhere) and Kawhi (ditto as of yet).

But even if the bar is comparatively lower, every team has their team-personal G(R)OAT.
After Kyle, Kawhi and Vince, I guess we'd have DeMar and Bosh as greatest Raptors, just not that great ....

Yeah Raptors don't have that all time great that was a #1 option. Kawhi was it, but he only played here 1 year. Kyle was the 2nd most valuable player in the championship run, nothing wrong with that. He was never meant to be a primary scorer, and he failed to carry that load when our former #1 option (Derozan) failed to carry it as well.

[The Great One]

C'mon man, Ross is absolute garbage next to Davis. And powell is also 10 times better than Ross. Ross is a total bum lol.

I guess the thing that I can say about Davis is that he played in the right era because no way that guy would survive playing in this era.

[The Great One]

Yeah Raptors don't have that all time great that was a #1 option. Kawhi was it, but he only played here 1 year. Kyle was the 2nd most valuable player in the championship run, nothing wrong with that. He was never meant to be a primary scorer, and he failed to carry that load when our former #1 option (Derozan) failed to carry it as well.

You guys really have short memories. Vince is not an all time great? unlike Lowry and DeRozan, Vince is actually a lock to make it to the HOF.

VC averaged 18ppg his rookie year. 26 his 2nd year, 28 his 3rd year, 25 his 4th year.....just look it yourself. He was legitimate #1 option too so I don't know what you're talking about. Obviously he was a role player the last 10 years of his career but you don't judge him by that you judge him the first 10 years of his career where he was a legitimate star.

[TrueTorontoFan]

You guys really have short memories. Vince is not an all time great? unlike Lowry and DeRozan, Vince is actually a lock to make it to the HOF.

VC averaged 18ppg his rookie year. 26 his 2nd year, 28 his 3rd year, 25 his 4th year.....just look it yourself. He was legitimate #1 option too so I don't know what you're talking about. Obviously he was a role player the last 10 years of his career but you don't judge him by that you judge him the first 10 years of his career where he was a legitimate star.

who said he wasn't?