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  • MixxAOR
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Yeah, I'd tend to agree with this.... it's called "sensitivity to initial conditions". Perhaps it's also why DeRozan (a shooting guard), still can't shoot 3's, even though he's now in the Spurs vaunted system. In his NBA formative years, DeMar was encouraged by Casey to dribble a lot, take contested 2's and draw fouls to be efficient. That was good enough to grind out regular season wins, but we all know what happened after that. Pascal is still a blank canvas, developing those good initial habits that are more suited to the modern game.

    The Raps development system is proven, but I worry about the effect of losing Jerry Stackhouse from the 905. He's the guy who coached Powell, Jakob, FVV, Delon, Pascal, McKinnie, Bruno & Bebe. That's 8 guys coached by Stackhouse in the G-league, who made NBA rotations.

    We haven't had any 905'ers crack the rotation since Stackhouse left and yet there's more opportunity available now. Jordan (Random Guy) Loyd & Lorenzo Brown washed out of the league altogether. Miller & Boucher are on the bubble.
    You can't pin it on one person. Stackhouse had more drafted players to work with. Jama was always player development coach. Before Stack and after Stack. Siakam came to Nurse after Cleveland sweep and asked him to help him work on his shooting. It takes a village.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeonClark
    replied
    Pretty dumb seeing harden and Russ so high. As predicted, it's not meshing very well. Yeah yeah weve seen your acts before. Harden will get 30 40 50 60 pts. Westbrook will get his triple double. But they're .500 and every single game had been scratch and claw to the end.

    to me it says a lot about Westbrook that hes this supposed MVP top 10 guy , and so far it looks like this is the worst version of the rockets harden has had. Hes better off with four 3&d roll players on the floor with him.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    This is a great point and you see the flip side of it with a Stanley Johnson, for example, who entered the league with a great pedigree (opposite of Pascal) and hasn't improved much since. Player acquisition and development has a lot of art to it as well as science.
    Yeah, I'd tend to agree with this.... it's called "sensitivity to initial conditions". Perhaps it's also why DeRozan (a shooting guard), still can't shoot 3's, even though he's now in the Spurs vaunted system. In his NBA formative years, DeMar was encouraged by Casey to dribble a lot, take contested 2's and draw fouls to be efficient. That was good enough to grind out regular season wins, but we all know what happened after that. Pascal is still a blank canvas, developing those good initial habits that are more suited to the modern game.

    The Raps development system is proven, but I worry about the effect of losing Jerry Stackhouse from the 905. He's the guy who coached Powell, Jakob, FVV, Delon, Pascal, McKinnie, Bruno & Bebe. That's 8 guys coached by Stackhouse in the G-league, who made NBA rotations.

    We haven't had any 905'ers crack the rotation since Stackhouse left and yet there's more opportunity available now. Jordan (Random Guy) Loyd & Lorenzo Brown washed out of the league altogether. Miller & Boucher are on the bubble.

    Leave a comment:


  • S.R.
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    He's not far off from MVP. It's really that ridiculous. 5 games in so huge whopping grain of salt, but if the Raps exceed expectations (remember some media guys had them out of the playoffs) than why not?. If a 28/9/4 guy helps lead a team to the best or second best record in the conference, out of nowhere, people will notice.

    And most "MVP" caliber players in the league right now have a second guy on the team that can take some of their votes away. Harden now has Russ. AD has Lebron (and vice versa). Kawhi has PG (and vise versa). Giannis doesn't have anyone but he just won it, and most media guys don't like giving out back to back MVP's, unless it's too obvious. KD is not playing. Curry is hurt now.

    I'm not placing any bets that he'll get it, but he might.. and it will be an amazing story if he does or is even in the running by season's end.
    Giannis has Middleton who is a top 10 player or something by now per the summer rankings, I don't pay attention anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    He's not far off from MVP. It's really that ridiculous. 5 games in so huge whopping grain of salt, but if the Raps exceed expectations (remember some media guys had them out of the playoffs) than why not?. If a 28/9/4 guy helps lead a team to the best or second best record in the conference, out of nowhere, people will notice.

    And most "MVP" caliber players in the league right now have a second guy on the team that can take some of their votes away. Harden now has Russ. AD has Lebron (and vice versa). Kawhi has PG (and vise versa). Giannis doesn't have anyone but he just won it, and most media guys don't like giving out back to back MVP's, unless it's too obvious. KD is not playing. Curry is hurt now.

    I'm not placing any bets that he'll get it, but he might.. and it will be an amazing story if he does or is even in the running by season's end.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeonClark
    replied
    Scraptor wrote: View Post

    I think you could amend Nilanka's statement to say the league has never seen this sort of year-by-year improvement by a player who entered the league as old as Pascal was. That was a big part of the skepticism about his ceiling (at least for me). I think the big takeaway is that the age-ceiling relationship can be set aside when the player begins playing seriously as late as Pascal did, because there's just more runway for growth despite the comparatively advanced age.

    And that is taking nothing away from Pascal's incredible work ethic. Full credit to him because without the work, the untapped potential means nothing.
    Pascals back story is a great one too. NBA basketball obsessed dad that would watch games at weird times on weird channels in Africa, wanting his kids to play pro ball desperately. The older ones never made it, and nobody really realized the real diamond in the rough was his soccer playing youngest, who had plans of becoming a priest. He made it to college ball, like his brothers, but nobody really thought he was gonna go NBA.

    Then he dies in a car accident, while Pascal is just red shirting at New Mexico, never sees him improve there, or get drafted, or earn minutes, or get MIP, or win title, or become alpha of a winning team. This would be beyond his dads wildest imaginations at the time of his death. It's quite the story, and most of us here have heard it, but I'm sure the ESPNs and the like will get around to telling it to the American viewers sometime this year

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    Scraptor wrote: View Post

    I think you could amend Nilanka's statement to say the league has never seen this sort of year-by-year improvement by a player who entered the league as old as Pascal was. That was a big part of the skepticism about his ceiling (at least for me). I think the big takeaway is that the age-ceiling relationship can be set aside when the player begins playing seriously as late as Pascal did, because there's just more runway for growth despite the comparatively advanced age.

    And that is taking nothing away from Pascal's incredible work ethic. Full credit to him because without the work, the untapped potential means nothing.
    It's like one scout talking about Ben Simmons. He was skeptical that he would learn to shoot because he started playing basketball when he was 12. "If he could learn to shoot, he would learn by now". And Simmons age didn't really matter at that point

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    Scraptor wrote: View Post

    I think you could amend Nilanka's statement to say the league has never seen this sort of year-by-year improvement by a player who entered the league as old as Pascal was. That was a big part of the skepticism about his ceiling (at least for me). I think the big takeaway is that the age-ceiling relationship can be set aside when the player begins playing seriously as late as Pascal did, because there's just more runway for growth despite the comparatively advanced age.

    And that is taking nothing away from Pascal's incredible work ethic. Full credit to him because without the work, the untapped potential means nothing.
    This is a great point and you see the flip side of it with a Stanley Johnson, for example, who entered the league with a great pedigree (opposite of Pascal) and hasn't improved much since. Player acquisition and development has a lot of art to it as well as science.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puffer
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Plus the system, Pascal may turn out to be the first/best G League product essentially developed by an NBA team's "farm system." A guy as raw as him would have had no way to get all those minutes with a team as good as the Raptors prior to the G League being properly utilized like it is now.
    I think this is a big factor. Is G League players getting selected in open tryouts without going to college a possibility? Or do they compromise their college eligibility by trying out?

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    Just putting it out there....

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

    https://www.basketball-reference.com....fcgi?id=MIiEE


    Leave a comment:


  • S.R.
    replied
    Plus the system, Pascal may turn out to be the first/best G League product essentially developed by an NBA team's "farm system." A guy as raw as him would have had no way to get all those minutes with a team as good as the Raptors prior to the G League being properly utilized like it is now.

    Leave a comment:


  • GOLDBLUM
    replied
    SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post

    Yeah, I used to think DeMar was the posterboy for NBA-improvement, building his game piece by piece. But then Pascal came along...
    In fairness, he was likely pretty influenced by Demar's attitude... and for that we should be grateful.

    He obviously didn't take tips from him on D or how to shoot the 3 though...

    Leave a comment:


  • Scraptor
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    Giannis. The numbers are not that far off.
    I think you could amend Nilanka's statement to say the league has never seen this sort of year-by-year improvement by a player who entered the league as old as Pascal was. That was a big part of the skepticism about his ceiling (at least for me). I think the big takeaway is that the age-ceiling relationship can be set aside when the player begins playing seriously as late as Pascal did, because there's just more runway for growth despite the comparatively advanced age.

    And that is taking nothing away from Pascal's incredible work ethic. Full credit to him because without the work, the untapped potential means nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't think the league has ever seen this sort of year-by-year improvement. Nobody knows what to make of it. It's remarkable to watch.
    Giannis. The numbers are not that far off.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't think the league has ever seen this sort of year-by-year improvement. Nobody knows what to make of it. It's remarkable to watch.
    Yeah, I used to think DeMar was the posterboy for NBA-improvement, building his game piece by piece. But then Pascal came along...

    Leave a comment:

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