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  • A.I
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    And, remember, there will be some activity in free agency. There is going to be lots of change even without any major trades.
    Agreed. More stars or any sort of upgrades that the Raptors may be interested in could become available throughout the off-season.

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  • slaw
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    At best Wiseman + 7 feels lateral - best case scenario those guys give you peak Siakam. Good chance they don't. Either way you're treading water.

    I'm with those that think even just keeping the #4, this team is nicely stocked again with good, mostly young talent. That #4 may be able to develop into your 1A, or with these assets you trade for one. But Wiseman/7 aren't a sure thing to move this roster forward vs the current players, at all. Why shuffle things around just for the sake of it.

    Hell, that #4 is likely to be a very good player! Why not just add that to Fred/Siakam/OG/GTJ? That's promising!
    And, remember, there will be some activity in free agency. There is going to be lots of change even without any major trades.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    At best Wiseman + 7 feels lateral - best case scenario those guys give you peak Siakam. Good chance they don't. Either way you're treading water.

    I'm with those that think even just keeping the #4, this team is nicely stocked again with good, mostly young talent. That #4 may be able to develop into your 1A, or with these assets you trade for one. But Wiseman/7 aren't a sure thing to move this roster forward vs the current players, at all. Why shuffle things around just for the sake of it.

    Hell, that #4 is likely to be a very good player! Why not just add that to Fred/Siakam/OG/GTJ? That's promising!

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    Primer wrote: View Post

    Fair take, this trade all depends on how much you value Wiseman. If you think he's a bust then this trade becomes 7th pick for Pascal and that's obviously very poor value. I didn't watch Wiseman at all this year so I don't have a firm grasp on him as a player. His stats look decent for a 1st year 20 year old center and he has legit center size and weight, but that's the extent of the analysis I can make right now.
    I think Siakam has become really under rated. He had a really bad year coming off a terrible bubble experience. But he had some quality games. That Laker game for example where he was on fire. He scored around 35 while also shutting down AD. That's the guy we were excited about last season when he got into the second all-nba team (and that was legitimate). He was a top 15 player that year.. and that was without Kawhi.

    What changed? Well the most drastic thing was covid. He wasn't energized by a home crowd. And he was a kid that played with a lot of energy. Tampa started poorly as well. The worst thing about Pascal last season was how anti clutch he was.. but he was super clutch the season prior. It was just a really bad year.. it's like someone had cursed him.

    I just feel bad about the kid. Yeah he's 27 but he started the game late.. and guys play until their 36-37 now.

    He's not a #1 star.. but there are only a handful of those.

    I don't trade Siakam for a prospect that hasn't panned out yet.. or some future picks. You trade him for another star like we did with DeMar. I'd want to see what he's like back in Toronto again.

    I've said this a lot now.. but go look at his shooting splits in Toronto and then on the road (including the bubble and Tampa). It's night and day. He's like a 40%+ shooter in Toronto.

    I suspect he'll be an all-star next year again.

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  • saints91
    replied
    Primer wrote: View Post

    Fair take, this trade all depends on how much you value Wiseman. If you think he's a bust then this trade becomes 7th pick for Pascal and that's obviously very poor value. I didn't watch Wiseman at all this year so I don't have a firm grasp on him as a player. His stats look decent for a 1st year 20 year old center and he has legit center size and weight, but that's the extent of the analysis I can make right now.
    I think GS handled his development poorly, and put too much pressure on him. Draymond did his usual Raymond thing, and the kid regressed. So we didn't;t see the best Wiseman, but it's hard to evaluate how good he actually is. But if they are actually putting him in deals... I would suspect there's some issues. I know there are complaints about his stone hands and feel for the game.

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  • Primer
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    Siakam should have more value than a magical box. Wiseman was horrible.. and yeah bigs require development.. but he was horrible. Like was he an actual bust? I remember seeing him play the Raptors and I thought Gillie was better.

    #7 is probably a good prospect. I had Moody as my Raptor pick before we moved up. But I take Siakam over Moody all day, every day. Siakam was a legit top 10-15 player two years ago (and that was without Kawhi).

    He needs a home court.. and we should have that next year. Guy is a 2-way player. He had a really bad year.. but now is not the time to undersell.

    Wait until Zion or Luka want out of NO/Dallas.. then trade Siakam for them. That's the right move. Not fricken Wiseman, Moody or Wiggins.
    Fair take, this trade all depends on how much you value Wiseman. If you think he's a bust then this trade becomes 7th pick for Pascal and that's obviously very poor value. I didn't watch Wiseman at all this year so I don't have a firm grasp on him as a player. His stats look decent for a 1st year 20 year old center and he has legit center size and weight, but that's the extent of the analysis I can make right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    Siakam should have more value than a magical box. Wiseman was horrible.. and yeah bigs require development.. but he was horrible. Like was he an actual bust? I remember seeing him play the Raptors and I thought Gillie was better.

    #7 is probably a good prospect. I had Moody as my Raptor pick before we moved up. But I take Siakam over Moody all day, every day. Siakam was a legit top 10-15 player two years ago (and that was without Kawhi).

    He needs a home court.. and we should have that next year. Guy is a 2-way player. He had a really bad year.. but now is not the time to undersell.

    Wait until Zion or Luka want out of NO/Dallas.. then trade Siakam for them. That's the right move. Not fricken Wiseman, Moody or Wiggins.

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  • Maury
    replied
    I’d rather just add Suggs, green, or Mobley to this core and see where we’re at next season.

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  • Mitchell Duong
    replied
    The more I think about it the more I'm okay with it. Wiggins isn't the key get. He's just the only thing you can get to match salaries (GS is keeping Draymond, Klay and Steph). You can even look to move him for something else, but I'd guess Masai would keep him.

    Wiseman is a good player. Bigs take a few years to get acclimated to the league and GS pushed for the playoffs last year, so he got a bit shafted on play time.

    I'd rather have Wiseman on a rookie deal with the #4, #7 coming onboard than Miles Turner. Fits the timeline a bit better.

    If you can get the 14th pick as well then its icing on the cake

    4, 7 and 14 is a lot of chips to see if you can get Houston to give up #2 (and take Green or even Cade if Detroit likes Green more) or go after another big name if you want. Masai and Bobby would have a lot of options.

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  • Primer
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    One thing is that it seems to me OG would be more effective as a PF (see Harris, Tobias) but that is contingent on: moving Pascal and secondly, adding a lot of firepower at the other forward spot and the SG position. The downside is that is you ever land a Green or Suggs and they pan out, Siakam and OG are basically the perfect complimentary combo upfront.

    All that aside, Wiggins isn't a guy who does anything to make your team better and Wiseman (the little I saw of him) didn't look like anything special to me. You've got to get back something better than that for Siakam.
    I suspect we could get them to toss in the 14th pick as well.

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  • slaw
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Ugh, Siakam's worth more than Wiseman + 7. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat if I were GSW though, that's a no brainer for them.
    One thing is that it seems to me OG would be more effective as a PF (see Harris, Tobias) but that is contingent on: moving Pascal and secondly, adding a lot of firepower at the other forward spot and the SG position. The downside is that is you ever land a Green or Suggs and they pan out, Siakam and OG are basically the perfect complimentary combo upfront.

    All that aside, Wiggins isn't a guy who does anything to make your team better and Wiseman (the little I saw of him) didn't look like anything special to me. You've got to get back something better than that for Siakam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shredder
    replied
    I want to see how Wiggins plays for Nurse before I give my preference. If Nurse gets more out of him, and Wiggins becomes an alpha (which I think is highly unlikely) Then I would be okay with it. If he disappears, like he usually does, then I would look elsewhere.

    4th, 7th, Wiseman, Trent, OG, Flynn, Harris, that's a pretty loaded young core. I would be obliged to re-sign Kyle as leadership and a pick and roll partner with Wiseman.

    It's enticing; but I love Spicy P as well. I also wouldn't want to sell low on him. I think he will be the player that benefits the most in playing back in TDot. I also like the OG, Pascal pairing, especially on D.

    Although Wiseman, is essentially who you are trading for, I'm not sure if loosing Pascal is worth it. I did not watch enough of Wiseman this year to comment though, but in my opinion going after a guy like Turner might be an easier target to get with less precious assets.

    A core of
    FVV
    4th Pick/Trent
    OG
    Pascal
    Turner is a pretty good lineup.

    A
    FVV
    4th pick/Trent
    Wiggins
    OG
    Wiseman
    7th pick off the bench
    Potentially has more potential, but as it stands is probably destined for another late lottery pick.

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  • saints91
    replied
    I think with the #4 pick and if we can squeeze anything from a Lowry Sign and Trade we should be on our way back up the ladder. Siakam and OG are a great front court to have. Flynn, Suggs/Green, FVV, and Gary Trent Jr. are a pretty damn good back court rotation. We need internal growth and some luck in free agency to get a 5. Khem would be a great back up. We don't really need that trade.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    Ugh, Siakam's worth more than Wiseman + 7. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat if I were GSW though, that's a no brainer for them.

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  • Kagemusha
    replied
    The Great One wrote: View Post

    Pascal's an alpha?
    Future alpha = 4th pick
    which l got wrong.

    #4 is not in the equation at all

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