Everything Pascal Siakam

[Joey]

Maybe Embiid will get sick of Philly fans booing him and want to come make the Cameroonian connection

You just know that Alex would have his bum knee in tip-top shape in no time too. Lol

[Joey]

Apart from many fans here, I like Embiid. He's got some growing up to do but I love his competitiveness and will to win. He can come here any time.....with Giannis

Who here doesn't' like Embiid? Sure he's our "enemy" since he plays for the 76ers, but I'm not sure you'll find too many people that don't think he's a special player and would welcome him on the team.

[G__Deane]

Who here doesn't' like Embiid? Sure he's our "enemy" since he plays for the 76ers, but I'm not sure you'll find too many people that don't think he's a special player and would welcome him on the team.

My failing memory says a lot of guys were trashing him in the playoffs as a player/skillset, not just as that particular playoff opponent. I still say if he was healthy, we'd have been life and death to get out of that round and the whole narrative around here changes.

[Joey]

My failing memory says a lot of guys were trashing him in the playoffs as a player/skillset, not just as that particular playoff opponent. I still say if he was healthy, we'd have been life and death to get out of that round and the whole narrative around here changes.

Staying healthy is just as important to winning a championship as having the talent. Saying "if Embiid were healthy" is like saying "if they had prime Michael Jordan" ... he isn't and never has been, and they didn't and never will.

[G__Deane]

Staying healthy is just as important to winning a championship as having the talent. Saying "if Embiid were healthy" is like saying "if they had prime Michael Jordan" ... he isn't and never has been, and they didn't and never will.

How about "if Embiid was healthy that one series....."
Better for you?

PS
Having the flu is quite different than a bum knee/back when talking about an athlete's injury/health history....

[MixxAOR]

Apart from many fans here, I like Embiid. He's got some growing up to do but I love his competitiveness and will to win. He can come here any time.....with Giannis

Embiid is a clown.

[planetmars]

I'm my vocabulary, lebron, Curry, Kawhi, Giannis and Durant are the elite guys. Yes maybe Harden and Davis.
After that you have guys that to me are still superstars like George (becuase he's 2-way), Westbrook (because he's not 2-way), Kyrie etc. PG may not be as flashy or get the headlines because of where he played his numbers don't lie.

The elite guys don't necessarily have to team up since there are only so many of them. But the supertars do with them or other superstars.

The jury is still out on Pascal, there's a lot of homerism on him here. I just don't see him becoming elite (so rare that's not a slight on him). Whether he can become a superstar and attract another remains to be seen. He's got a long way to go to be as good as a Paul George or Anthony Davis or even Bradley Beale..

Well Pascal just completed his third year.. where his first was mostly with the 905's. I'm not saying he'll be Anthony Davis (who's near elite already and who I referenced as a superstar). But George took a long time to becoming where he is now.. ie, 3rd in MVP voting. Pascal is the guy George was in Indiana or close to it. And he'll get a chance to really prove it next year when he's the man on the team. It's a wait and see.. and that I think is what people here are saying. He's not there yet, but can get there. He's got some tools and proved his potential a bit last year (like scoring 32 on 14/17 shooting in the NBA finals - with Draymond Green covering him).

You can be pessimistic on his chances.. that's fine. It's a discussion forum. I just feel a lot more optimistic that Pascal will become good enough to attract other players to want to play with him.. especially guys that are not US-born. I feel better about Pascal's chances to being great more than I ever did about DeMar.. and that's because Pascal plays defense and he'll be on a team managed by Masai (unlike Bosh who was managed by Colangelo unfortunately).

As for the 2016 draft class though.. I currently have Pascal as the second best player after Simmons depending on how you feel about his game. I like him over Murray/Hield/Sabonis/etc. And the 2016 draft was just 3 years ago. Taking homerism out of it, where do you rank him in that draft class? If high up than why don't you think he can get into that "star" realm that you've defined?

What makes Beal so much more attractive than Pascal right now? He's been an all-star only twice in 7 seasons played.

[Joey]

How about "if Embiid was healthy that one series....."
Better for you?

PS
Having the flu is quite different than a bum knee/back when talking about an athlete's injury/health history....

Meh, not really. Lol And is it different though? Embiid is incapable of staying healthy, regardless of what it is. If anything it's a much worse excuse than having a bum knee/back etc. Either way, that is the narrative around Embiid until he makes it not be. And presenting the hypothetical of "if he wasn't who he was" just seems to be a futile argument.

[slaw]

Who here doesn't' like Embiid? Sure he's our "enemy" since he plays for the 76ers, but I'm not sure you'll find too many people that don't think he's a special player and would welcome him on the team.

What do you mean by like? He's a good player but I don't particularly like the way he carries himself. I'd take him on the Raps but I'm way too worried about his health to rely on him as a #1 guy. Huge dudes with foot and back issues aren't exactly durable...

[Joey]

What do you mean by like? He's a good player but I don't particularly like the way he carries himself. I'd take him on the Raps but I'm way too worried about his health to rely on him as a #1 guy. Huge dudes with foot and back issues aren't exactly durable...

Ya, fair enough. More just meant that people here, for the most part, recognize he's a special talent and would hate him a lot less if he wore the Red and Black.

[LJ2]

Well Pascal just completed his third year.. where his first was mostly with the 905's. I'm not saying he'll be Anthony Davis (who's near elite already and who I referenced as a superstar). But George took a long time to becoming where he is now.. ie, 3rd in MVP voting. Pascal is the guy George was in Indiana or close to it. And he'll get a chance to really prove it next year when he's the man on the team. It's a wait and see.. and that I think is what people here are saying. He's not there yet, but can get there. He's got some tools and proved his potential a bit last year (like scoring 32 on 14/17 shooting in the NBA finals - with Draymond Green covering him).

You can be pessimistic on his chances.. that's fine. It's a discussion forum. I just feel a lot more optimistic that Pascal will become good enough to attract other players to want to play with him.. especially guys that are not US-born. I feel better about Pascal's chances to being great more than I ever did about DeMar.. and that's because Pascal plays defense and he'll be on a team managed by Masai (unlike Bosh who was managed by Colangelo unfortunately).

As for the 2016 draft class though.. I currently have Pascal as the second best player after Simmons depending on how you feel about his game. I like him over Murray/Hield/Sabonis/etc. And the 2016 draft was just 3 years ago. Taking homerism out of it, where do you rank him in that draft class? If high up than why don't you think he can get into that "star" realm that you've defined?

What makes Beal so much more attractive than Pascal right now? He's been an all-star only twice in 7 seasons played.

Pascal is still viewed as a hustle-great motor-great length guy, and not as a skilled player. That is what puts Beal and guys like Beal ahead of him in peoples minds. It takes someone like Giannis coming along to show people that hustle, motor and length at an elite level can be just as valuable as shooting, passing etc.

[planetmars]

Pascal is still viewed as a hustle-great motor-great length guy, and not as a skilled player. That is what puts Beal and guys like Beal ahead of him in peoples minds. It takes someone like Giannis coming along to show people that hustle, motor and length at an elite level can be just as valuable as shooting, passing etc.

It's a good point.. it's also because Pascal might be a flash in the pan. He came from nowhere. I mean he was not a great player at all in his 2nd year. He didn't make the all-rookie team or even the all-rookie game.

But Beal has played in the league for 7 years.. furthest he got in the playoffs was the 2nd round. Pascal in 4 years could exceed what Beal has done.. I don't think it would be too difficult. He is most likely going to be our best player and our all-star nominee for next year. There are arguably more elite guards than bigs in the game.. so he might be able to get an all-nba nod if things go well for him and the Raptors.

And if the NBA sees more elite non-US born players in the league.. I could see one or two of them wanting to play with Pascal to take the league by storm. Maybe Giannis is already that guy. Hopefully he is.

[golden]

Pascal is still viewed as a hustle-great motor-great length guy, and not as a skilled player. That is what puts Beal and guys like Beal ahead of him in peoples minds. It takes someone like Giannis coming along to show people that hustle, motor and length at an elite level can be just as valuable as shooting, passing etc.

Years ago, I came up with this criteria to determine who is an elite scorer. It goes something like this:

USG > 25%
ORTG > 110
MP/G > 30

Below is a link to the list of the players who met the criteria for the last 4 seasons, from BB-Ref. Sort it by name:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=gzFyI

Any player on the list twice (like Beal) is a top flight scorer. If you're on the list 4 times, you're the cream of the crop (Steph, Lebron, Harden, Durant). If you're on the list once, you're very, very good.

Pascal has to increase his usage quite a bit to make this list. He's got a chance.

[Joey]

Years ago, I came up with this criteria to determine who is an elite scorer. It goes something like this:

USG > 25%
ORTG > 110
MP/G > 30

Below is a link to the list of the players who met the criteria for the last 4 seasons, from BB-Ref. Sort it by name:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=gzFyI

Any player on the list twice (like Beal) is a top flight scorer. If you're on the list 4 times, you're the cream of the crop (Steph, Lebron, Harden, Durant). If you're on the list once, you're very, very good.

Pascal has to increase his usage quite a bit to make this list. He's got a chance.

Per the bold, I call shenanigans ... Jabari Parker made the list. Lol

[golden]

Per the bold, I call shenanigans ... Jabari Parker made the list. Lol

lol. There are a lot of flash-in-the-pan scorers that make the list once or even twice in their careers. Guys who do it for the 1st time at lower minutes are usually undervalued and worth taking a gamble on.

The reality is that Parker was a very, very good scorer in his 3rd year and then foolishly turned down a big rookie scale extension, believing he was on that upward curve to become a max player. Problem is that he never developed a reliable 3-pt shot and sucks at just about every other aspect of basketball (especially defense), not to mention being perpetually injured.