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  • golden wrote: View Post

    Years ago, I came up with this criteria to determine who is an elite scorer. It goes something like this:

    USG > 25%
    ORTG > 110
    MP/G > 30

    Below is a link to the list of the players who met the criteria for the last 4 seasons, from BB-Ref. Sort it by name:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=gzFyI

    Any player on the list twice (like Beal) is a top flight scorer. If you're on the list 4 times, you're the cream of the crop (Steph, Lebron, Harden, Durant). If you're on the list once, you're very, very good.

    Pascal has to increase his usage quite a bit to make this list. He's got a chance.

    Interesting. I think Beal is great, but isn't it still hard to judge? I mean, DeRozan is on that list 3 times and we know how that panned out in the playoffs.

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    • suspenders wrote: View Post

      Interesting. I think Beal is great, but isn't it still hard to judge? I mean, DeRozan is on that list 3 times and we know how that panned out in the playoffs.
      He did say elite scorer specifically.. and DeMar is an elite scorer.

      Comment


      • planetmars wrote: View Post

        He did say elite scorer specifically.. and DeMar is an elite scorer.
        DeRozan was an elite scorer "in the regular season", under Casey, but not under Popovich. However, ironically, DeMar met the "golden rule" elite scorer criteria in the playoffs, under Popovich last season. Weird.

        Below is the link to the list of players who met the criteria for the last 4 playoff seasons. Obviously a much smaller sample size of games, but it's still mostly the guys you expect to be on there:

        http://bkref.com/tiny/K8fhi

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          Years ago, I came up with this criteria to determine who is an elite scorer. It goes something like this:

          USG > 25%
          ORTG > 110
          MP/G > 30

          Below is a link to the list of the players who met the criteria for the last 4 seasons, from BB-Ref. Sort it by name:

          https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=gzFyI

          Any player on the list twice (like Beal) is a top flight scorer. If you're on the list 4 times, you're the cream of the crop (Steph, Lebron, Harden, Durant). If you're on the list once, you're very, very good.

          Pascal has to increase his usage quite a bit to make this list. He's got a chance.

          The thing is even with an aging Lowry, Gasol and Serge, I'm not expecting Siakam to get the sort of usgke Kawhi and DeMar got. I think we will see a lot more sharing the ball this season because nobody really has an elite level isolation game. I know Siakam is pretty good around the key, but not sure if he can break down a defense consistently from the 3pt line. Definitely not going to draw a second defender like Kawhi.

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          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

            The thing is even with an aging Lowry, Gasol and Serge, I'm not expecting Siakam to get the sort of usgke Kawhi and DeMar got. I think we will see a lot more sharing the ball this season because nobody really has an elite level isolation game. I know Siakam is pretty good around the key, but not sure if he can break down a defense consistently from the 3pt line. Definitely not going to draw a second defender like Kawhi.
            Siakam doesn't need to be a 30% usage guy, but if he's not carrying 25% this year something is wrong.

            Sharing the ball only helps if you get the defence moving first, and you need someone to attack to make that happen. That's really what a first option is - the guy you put in position to threaten to score enough that the defence lets other guys score to prevent that. We used to be able to run Lowry-JV PnR as our secondary threat play (behind all the get-the-ball-to-the-star plays). This year, it will be tougher to get high threat plays moving. The Lowry-Serge play tends to get you points but not to move the defence, teams will let Serge have his midrange jumpers. Lowry-Gasol will lead to a lot of jumpers, again a fine outcome, but again not likely a significant source of defensive rotation that will get tertiary guys open looks. Gasol in the post can make the pass if he's doubled but smart teams will let him try to score one on one without bringing help.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • DanH wrote: View Post

              Siakam doesn't need to be a 30% usage guy, but if he's not carrying 25% this year something is wrong.

              Sharing the ball only helps if you get the defence moving first, and you need someone to attack to make that happen. That's really what a first option is - the guy you put in position to threaten to score enough that the defence lets other guys score to prevent that. We used to be able to run Lowry-JV PnR as our secondary threat play (behind all the get-the-ball-to-the-star plays). This year, it will be tougher to get high threat plays moving. The Lowry-Serge play tends to get you points but not to move the defence, teams will let Serge have his midrange jumpers. Lowry-Gasol will lead to a lot of jumpers, again a fine outcome, but again not likely a significant source of defensive rotation that will get tertiary guys open looks. Gasol in the post can make the pass if he's doubled but smart teams will let him try to score one on one without bringing help.
              Not only does Pascal need to carry that 25% USG, but he needs to carry it at higher than league average efficiency, or else he's hurting the team.

              Speaking of JV, he actually cracked the > 25% USG @ > 110 ORTG club this year, but at much less than 30 MPG. This means that JV does have some potential to be a first option on offense, assuming he can stay on the court for defensive purposes.


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              • You guys know gasol has a post game right?

                Comment


                • grindhouse wrote: View Post
                  You guys know gasol has a post game right?
                  0.85 PPP on post ups last year. If you want to finish dead last in the league in offense then yeah let's base our offense around that.

                  Even when you have an efficient post-up guy like JV you can't just force feed the ball into the post the same way you can spam isolation or pick and roll possessions. It's not a type of basketball that works well in the modern game.

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                  • grindhouse wrote: View Post
                    You guys know gasol has a post game right?
                    Sadly.... yes.



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                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Sadly.... yes.



                      That clearly should have been a foul. He rode Gasol like a pony on the way up and put the spurs to him on the way down. If that happened to me in a game, the guy gets clocked.

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                      • Joey wrote: View Post

                        Per the bold, I call shenanigans ... Jabari Parker made the list. Lol
                        Was gonna laugh at Buddy Hield too, and then clicked on him. Today I learned Buddy Hield scored 20.7 ppg last year on 59% TS

                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                        Comment


                        • Puffer wrote: View Post

                          That clearly should have been a foul. He rode Gasol like a pony on the way up and put the spurs to him on the way down. If that happened to me in a game, the guy gets clocked.
                          That's because you're playing against Larry from accounting and both of you want to make it home to have pork chops and a beer without pulling any muscles or getting too hurt, this is after all just a hobby to get loose and have some fun. Chill out Larry.
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                            Was gonna laugh at Buddy Hield too, and then clicked on him. Today I learned Buddy Hield scored 20.7 ppg last year on 59% TS
                            Ya man, Hield was legit last year.

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                            • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                              Was gonna laugh at Buddy Hield too, and then clicked on him. Today I learned Buddy Hield scored 20.7 ppg last year on 59% TS
                              Laugh at the "golden rule" at your own peril. Where is the "I am always right" Shaolin font when you need it.

                              Comment


                              • Puffer wrote: View Post

                                That clearly should have been a foul. He rode Gasol like a pony on the way up and put the spurs to him on the way down. If that happened to me in a game, the guy gets clocked.
                                They ran a post up against a zone or pascal should be on the other side of the court so Giannis can’t help.

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