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  • Scraptor wrote: View Post

    I think you could amend Nilanka's statement to say the league has never seen this sort of year-by-year improvement by a player who entered the league as old as Pascal was. That was a big part of the skepticism about his ceiling (at least for me). I think the big takeaway is that the age-ceiling relationship can be set aside when the player begins playing seriously as late as Pascal did, because there's just more runway for growth despite the comparatively advanced age.

    And that is taking nothing away from Pascal's incredible work ethic. Full credit to him because without the work, the untapped potential means nothing.
    It's like one scout talking about Ben Simmons. He was skeptical that he would learn to shoot because he started playing basketball when he was 12. "If he could learn to shoot, he would learn by now". And Simmons age didn't really matter at that point
    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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    • Scraptor wrote: View Post

      I think you could amend Nilanka's statement to say the league has never seen this sort of year-by-year improvement by a player who entered the league as old as Pascal was. That was a big part of the skepticism about his ceiling (at least for me). I think the big takeaway is that the age-ceiling relationship can be set aside when the player begins playing seriously as late as Pascal did, because there's just more runway for growth despite the comparatively advanced age.

      And that is taking nothing away from Pascal's incredible work ethic. Full credit to him because without the work, the untapped potential means nothing.
      Pascals back story is a great one too. NBA basketball obsessed dad that would watch games at weird times on weird channels in Africa, wanting his kids to play pro ball desperately. The older ones never made it, and nobody really realized the real diamond in the rough was his soccer playing youngest, who had plans of becoming a priest. He made it to college ball, like his brothers, but nobody really thought he was gonna go NBA.

      Then he dies in a car accident, while Pascal is just red shirting at New Mexico, never sees him improve there, or get drafted, or earn minutes, or get MIP, or win title, or become alpha of a winning team. This would be beyond his dads wildest imaginations at the time of his death. It's quite the story, and most of us here have heard it, but I'm sure the ESPNs and the like will get around to telling it to the American viewers sometime this year
      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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      • He's not far off from MVP. It's really that ridiculous. 5 games in so huge whopping grain of salt, but if the Raps exceed expectations (remember some media guys had them out of the playoffs) than why not?. If a 28/9/4 guy helps lead a team to the best or second best record in the conference, out of nowhere, people will notice.

        And most "MVP" caliber players in the league right now have a second guy on the team that can take some of their votes away. Harden now has Russ. AD has Lebron (and vice versa). Kawhi has PG (and vise versa). Giannis doesn't have anyone but he just won it, and most media guys don't like giving out back to back MVP's, unless it's too obvious. KD is not playing. Curry is hurt now.

        I'm not placing any bets that he'll get it, but he might.. and it will be an amazing story if he does or is even in the running by season's end.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          He's not far off from MVP. It's really that ridiculous. 5 games in so huge whopping grain of salt, but if the Raps exceed expectations (remember some media guys had them out of the playoffs) than why not?. If a 28/9/4 guy helps lead a team to the best or second best record in the conference, out of nowhere, people will notice.

          And most "MVP" caliber players in the league right now have a second guy on the team that can take some of their votes away. Harden now has Russ. AD has Lebron (and vice versa). Kawhi has PG (and vise versa). Giannis doesn't have anyone but he just won it, and most media guys don't like giving out back to back MVP's, unless it's too obvious. KD is not playing. Curry is hurt now.

          I'm not placing any bets that he'll get it, but he might.. and it will be an amazing story if he does or is even in the running by season's end.
          Giannis has Middleton who is a top 10 player or something by now per the summer rankings, I don't pay attention anymore.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • slaw wrote: View Post

            This is a great point and you see the flip side of it with a Stanley Johnson, for example, who entered the league with a great pedigree (opposite of Pascal) and hasn't improved much since. Player acquisition and development has a lot of art to it as well as science.
            Yeah, I'd tend to agree with this.... it's called "sensitivity to initial conditions". Perhaps it's also why DeRozan (a shooting guard), still can't shoot 3's, even though he's now in the Spurs vaunted system. In his NBA formative years, DeMar was encouraged by Casey to dribble a lot, take contested 2's and draw fouls to be efficient. That was good enough to grind out regular season wins, but we all know what happened after that. Pascal is still a blank canvas, developing those good initial habits that are more suited to the modern game.

            The Raps development system is proven, but I worry about the effect of losing Jerry Stackhouse from the 905. He's the guy who coached Powell, Jakob, FVV, Delon, Pascal, McKinnie, Bruno & Bebe. That's 8 guys coached by Stackhouse in the G-league, who made NBA rotations.

            We haven't had any 905'ers crack the rotation since Stackhouse left and yet there's more opportunity available now. Jordan (Random Guy) Loyd & Lorenzo Brown washed out of the league altogether. Miller & Boucher are on the bubble.

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            • Pretty dumb seeing harden and Russ so high. As predicted, it's not meshing very well. Yeah yeah weve seen your acts before. Harden will get 30 40 50 60 pts. Westbrook will get his triple double. But they're .500 and every single game had been scratch and claw to the end.

              to me it says a lot about Westbrook that hes this supposed MVP top 10 guy , and so far it looks like this is the worst version of the rockets harden has had. Hes better off with four 3&d roll players on the floor with him.
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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              • golden wrote: View Post

                Yeah, I'd tend to agree with this.... it's called "sensitivity to initial conditions". Perhaps it's also why DeRozan (a shooting guard), still can't shoot 3's, even though he's now in the Spurs vaunted system. In his NBA formative years, DeMar was encouraged by Casey to dribble a lot, take contested 2's and draw fouls to be efficient. That was good enough to grind out regular season wins, but we all know what happened after that. Pascal is still a blank canvas, developing those good initial habits that are more suited to the modern game.

                The Raps development system is proven, but I worry about the effect of losing Jerry Stackhouse from the 905. He's the guy who coached Powell, Jakob, FVV, Delon, Pascal, McKinnie, Bruno & Bebe. That's 8 guys coached by Stackhouse in the G-league, who made NBA rotations.

                We haven't had any 905'ers crack the rotation since Stackhouse left and yet there's more opportunity available now. Jordan (Random Guy) Loyd & Lorenzo Brown washed out of the league altogether. Miller & Boucher are on the bubble.
                You can't pin it on one person. Stackhouse had more drafted players to work with. Jama was always player development coach. Before Stack and after Stack. Siakam came to Nurse after Cleveland sweep and asked him to help him work on his shooting. It takes a village.
                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                  Pretty dumb seeing harden and Russ so high. As predicted, it's not meshing very well. Yeah yeah weve seen your acts before. Harden will get 30 40 50 60 pts. Westbrook will get his triple double. But they're .500 and every single game had been scratch and claw to the end.

                  to me it says a lot about Westbrook that hes this supposed MVP top 10 guy , and so far it looks like this is the worst version of the rockets harden has had. Hes better off with four 3&d roll players on the floor with him.
                  Its a bit of a stretch to say its not working imo. The offense functions well, the problem is defense. Its a problem that the team only plays at one end, but its also fixable. The narrative that they don't fit is wrong imo - though its fair to ask how they play in a 7 game series. Agreed though, anyone who says they are both -or frankly either- are MVP candidates is absurd.

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                  • From reddit: Pascal is the only player out of the top 20 scorers with 50/40/90 splits.

                    He's averaging 28 points (6th) on 51/44/96 shooting
                    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                    • 007 wrote: View Post
                      From reddit: Pascal is the only player out of the top 20 scorers with 50/40/90 splits.

                      He's averaging 28 points (6th) on 51/44/96 shooting
                      You were on Reddit, did you say hi to our boy Shaolin?

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                      • jacobdr4 wrote: View Post

                        You were on Reddit, did you say hi to our boy Shaolin?
                        That's good hes over there. Reddit is a safe place for all the snowflakes to get outraged together.

                        I cringed typing that like a trump honk, but I feel its appropriate in this case
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                        • Last season the basketball gods rewarded the Raptors with Kawhi to make up for their past Vince Carter debacle.

                          This season the Raptors got a Siakam to make up for T-mac leaving town before blowing up.

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                            That's good hes over there. Reddit is a safe place for all the snowflakes to get outraged together.

                            I cringed typing that like a trump honk, but I feel its appropriate in this case
                            Not sure about the Raptors specific site, but it seems like 3/4 of NBA reddit is people who dont watch games but regurgitate information from popular writers and posters. Pretty cringy too.

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                            • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post

                              Not sure about the Raptors specific site, but it seems like 3/4 of NBA reddit is people who dont watch games but regurgitate information from popular writers and posters. Pretty cringy too.
                              Everyone who posts on Reddit appropriates the "Redditor" voice. They all sound the same, they all make the same points, if they find something they disagree with they will respond the exact same way, everytime. It's interesting.

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                              • Maury wrote: View Post

                                Everyone who posts on Reddit appropriates the "Redditor" voice. They all sound the same, they all make the same points, if they find something they disagree with they will respond the exact same way, everytime. It's interesting.
                                Actually clicking on thread on reddit are pointless, only thing its good for is seeing highlights plays while you watch your game of choice on a night where 6+ games are going on.

                                Also the Raptors specific reddit all seems to be people who have only been watching raptors the last 4 years and give analysis like there leo rautins. We got some real raps historians here at RR.
                                Last edited by bertarapsfan; Fri Nov 1, 2019, 08:56 PM.
                                To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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