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  • LJ2
    replied
    I viewed the Pascal trade rumors as people (media) thinking the Raps were going to blow the team up with Kyle on his way out and a top 4 prospect coming in.

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  • golden
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    It's not that GMs aren't sure he's worth his contract, it's that his recent play has them thinking they can get him for cheap (or that he is available at all, which by all accounts, nope, not really).

    You are well within your rights to question whether he is worth his contract, no matter how wrong or silly it is to do so, so long as you don't mind being described as wrong or silly.
    Exactly. Raptors have their first off-year in a decade (which, itself, is highly explainable) and GMs and big market media are circling like vultures.

    The main reason Pascal is in rumors is because he's been put into a role (i.e. Kawhi replacement) that makes him look bad at the worst possible times. And for some reason, even our own fanbase is turning on him because of that. Not his fault - who else on this team is supposed to carry that load?

    Otherwise, GMs know that Pascal is a very good-to-great player, who is a proven championship calibre #2 guy.

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  • DanH
    replied
    Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
    It's not that GMs aren't sure he's worth his contract, it's that his recent play has them thinking they can get him for cheap (or that he is available at all, which by all accounts, nope, not really).

    You are well within your rights to question whether he is worth his contract, no matter how wrong or silly it is to do so, so long as you don't mind being described as wrong or silly.

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  • MixxAOR
    replied
    If it wasn't for Pascal this team would've been even in deeper shit than it is now.

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  • TrueTorontoFan
    replied
    Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
    so what exactly is your plan then just curious?

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  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    Damn you are stubborn, it comes with age i guess lol.

    you seem to equate every adversity that faces individual players as in this case Siakam as being all equal

    to move on with this back and forth discussion…lets cheer that he redeem himself this season.

    Because COVID and it’s inconveniences that goes with it is still around and most especially now that he is carrying a very young team without the luxury of players surrounding him in 2019 who aided his rise to riches.

    adversity at the highest level

    sink or swim season for Pascal Siakam
    Wouldn't adversity at the highest level be, say, if he broke both legs? Would you be criticising his play in those conditions? Wouldn't someone suggesting that was proof he crumbled under adversity sound a little silly? Wouldn't it be funny if they thought that his play on two broken legs was a good way to judge what his play would be like in normal conditions?

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  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    So you admit your only point is that Pascal struggled in situations he will likely never be in again and you fully expect he will return to his previous form of excelling the the playoffs and regular season as per our chip run and the regular season that followed it? Great, glad we could find some common ground.

    I mean, if that is, as you say, your case. Then we have little to argue about.
    Damn you are stubborn, it comes with age i guess lol.

    you seem to equate every adversity that faces individual players as in this case Siakam as being all equal

    to move on with this back and forth discussion…lets cheer that he redeem himself this season.

    Because COVID and it’s inconveniences that goes with it is still around and most especially now that he is carrying a very young team without the luxury of players surrounding him in 2019 who aided his rise to riches.

    adversity at the highest level

    sink or swim season for Pascal Siakam

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  • Puffer
    replied
    Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.
    Agree with the bolded, other GM's aren't sure how he plays when he comes back, so if there is any reason to expect he will come back to 2020 form, why would you trade him? The record of players coming back from serious injury and any kind of surgery seems to be pretty good these days. Bobby would be crazy to trade him for trash even if there's a 50/50 chance of him fully recovering. Even if it takes all year. The Raptors aren't threatening to take a championship this year. Bring Siakim along slowly, let other guys get playing/development time, and reintroduce Pascal to the lineup when it is safe to do so.

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  • Yuri Gagarin
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Pascal has bankable upside, and his trade value right now is low based on actual performance.

    Those guys' trade value is literally negative based on actual performance. You are trading for ONLY upside, and it is very easily arguable that Pascal by himself has more upside than all those pieces combined, considering he has already realized (in the very recent past) 2nd team all-NBA potential.
    Pascal has something to prove. Most admit his trade value is low right now (even before the operation) You keep acting like it’s a guarantee that he’s that 2nd team all-star but it’s not a guarantee. If it was GM’s would value him as such. They’d say oh it was the bubble, didn’t play at home, lived in a hotel, caught COVID. They aren’t blind to those circumstances - they’re not sure his actual play is worth 35 a year. You are but they aren’t. And neither are some of us. Or we’re at least questioning whether he is.

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  • DanH
    replied
    The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

    I rest my case
    So you admit your only point is that Pascal struggled in situations he will likely never be in again and you fully expect he will return to his previous form of excelling the the playoffs and regular season as per our chip run and the regular season that followed it? Great, glad we could find some common ground.

    I mean, if that is, as you say, your case. Then we have little to argue about.

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  • golden
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Those are great defensive numbers. Also, you very very rarely see a guy on lists like that who is also asked to close out games offensively. It is possible that Siakam rimming out eog buzzer beaters has something to do with his defensive output for the previous 30-35 minutes. Stars who can play two way at that level tend to pick their spots defensively as they mature so they can do what they need to offensively. Might need that out of Siakam if they want to keep handing him the ball in the clutch.
    Yeah, Pascal covers a ton of ground, like a middle linebacker in Nurse’s highly demanding defense. And Fred is like a free safety. Pretty sure they both would be top 10 in distanced travelled in a game - at least on defense.

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  • S.R.
    replied
    Those are great defensive numbers. Also, you very very rarely see a guy on lists like that who is also asked to close out games offensively. It is possible that Siakam rimming out eog buzzer beaters has something to do with his defensive output for the previous 30-35 minutes. Stars who can play two way at that level tend to pick their spots defensively as they mature so they can do what they need to offensively. Might need that out of Siakam if they want to keep handing him the ball in the clutch.

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  • The Claw Reborn
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post

    Again, I point you to the 2019-20 campaign when Kawhi was gone and Siakam performed well enough to earn an all-NBA nod. It was only when the extremely weird circumstances of the bubble and the COVID season came along that he struggled. Why would we attribute those struggles to generally being unable to perform under pressure when we have loads of evidence he is quite capable of that, when we have blindingly obvious reasons why he might have struggled practically slapping us in the face?
    I rest my case

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  • inthepaint
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

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  • MixxAOR
    replied

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