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  • golden
    replied
    Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

    Disagree. Pascal had more leverage and could sign a 2 year max with a player option next summer that we would end up matching. This gives the Raps Pascal’s rights for another 4 years and not rolling the dice on him being unrestricted in 2 years instead of 4.
    That doesn't make any sense. If he's willing to take a 2-year max from another team, and the Raps are still willing to offer him a 4-year max at higher raises than other teams, why would he take less money and less years?

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  • S.R.
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Nobody said Pascal is a bad player.... no twisting there, eh? The question is if he's going to justify being a max player and the implications to roster construction, if he doesn't pan out as a max player. All of your arguments... championship... win shares.... are all heavily interwined with team success. I mean, Lowry, Kawhi, Green and Gasol were also big win shares drivers. If you start handing out salaries based on win shares and championships, then your whole starting 5 are going to be max or near max.

    But again, all of these discussions are sidebars, because there was no good reason for the team to max him now.... unless Pascal was threatening to take the QO. That's the real story here. Why now?
    Maybe they really like him, really want to keep him, and wanted to send him a message. Players do seem to appreciate when teams step right up to the plate like this rather than waiting it out. They often make positive comments about "feeling wanted."

    There is an element of risk, there always is. We don't know if Lowry will hold up to the end of his deal. We don't know if the new deals are going to squeeze out Fred. We don't know if Pascal will continue to perform.

    It's a nice security blanket when your prospects are on cheap rookie deals. But if they improve you have to pay up, trade, or let them walk. Raps have decided to pay Pascal. It is what it is.

    Also, what DeMar did for the Raps and discounts other players have taken are the exception, not the norm. I don't expect it from anybody. Especially Siakam who started with a relatively small rookie deal as a 27th pick. This is his first payday. Guys virtually never leave money on the table with their first payday.

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  • Rudy Bargnani
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Masai could have waited and matched the market offers next year. That's the leverage they had and what a lot of people thought was the cap smart thing to do, especially if the salary cap ends up going down because of China. Pascal's only leverage was threatening to take the QO and becoming un-restricted.

    .
    Disagree. Pascal had more leverage and could sign a 2 year max with a player option next summer that we would end up matching. This gives the Raps Pascal’s rights for another 4 years and not rolling the dice on him being unrestricted in 2 years instead of 4.

    We control term this way.
    Last edited by Rudy Bargnani; Sat Oct 19, 2019, 09:04 PM.

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  • golden
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post

    He was the second best player on the best team. Top 15 win shares. He’s a top 10 forward in the league. It’s not a straw man to point out he’s really good. You twisting the argument doesn’t make him a bad player.

    Even if he dies exactly what he did last year he’s getting a max offer. Look at the 2020 class. Lots of guys are getting max salaries, not just #1 options.
    Nobody said Pascal is a bad player.... no twisting there, eh? The question is if he's going to justify being a max player and the implications to roster construction, if he doesn't pan out as a max player. All of your arguments... championship... win shares.... are all heavily interwined with team success. I mean, Lowry, Kawhi, Green and Gasol were also big win shares drivers. If you start handing out salaries based on win shares and championships, then your whole starting 5 are going to be max or near max.

    But again, all of these discussions are sidebars, because there was no good reason for the team to max him now.... unless Pascal was threatening to take the QO. That's the real story here. Why now?

    Leave a comment:


  • slaw
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    If Pascal falls on his face as a first option this year... then he's not getting the max. Masai could have waited and matched the market offers next year. That's the leverage they had and what a lot of people thought was the cap smart thing to do, especially if the salary cap ends up going down because of China. Pascal's only leverage was threatening to take the QO and becoming un-restricted. That's probably what happened. There is no market at the moment - Raptors are purely bidding against themselves.

    You're the one who brought up "2nd best player on a championship team" as some type of justification for the max. Don't blame me for shooting that silly strawman.
    He was the second best player on the best team. Top 15 win shares. He’s a top 10 forward in the league. It’s not a straw man to point out he’s really good. You twisting the argument doesn’t make him a bad player.

    Even if he dies exactly what he did last year he’s getting a max offer. Look at the 2020 class. Lots of guys are getting max salaries, not just #1 options.

    Leave a comment:

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