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  • G__Deane
    replied
    007 wrote: View Post

    Another way to look at it: Siakam will be paid less than or roughly equal to Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward, Tobias Harris, Khris Middleton, Kemba Walker and Jamal Murray. Beal will be the same once his extension kicks in. Davis will get a monster deal next summer, which will start same time as Pascal’s
    Another way to look at it is a ton of players are over paid lol

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  • planetmars
    replied
    There is a C category for all-nba. So 2 guards, 2 forwards, and 1 C per team.

    KAT and Jokic will be C's. Forwards will include: Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, George, Blake, Aldridge, etc. No KD who's usually in the first or second team though.

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  • Truth Teller
    replied
    If Raptors get a top 3 seed, I can see it. KAT and PG aren't locks - one never makes playoffs, the other might have bad shoulders.

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  • Ebonhawke
    replied
    Siakam getting 1st or 2nd All-NBA will be tough.. There's LeBron, Paul George, Kawhi, Davis (all of whom will be getting massive media hype & coverage all year long), plus add Jokic, Gobert, KAT - and that's just Western Conference forwards

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  • Maury
    replied
    The Great One wrote: View Post

    2013 Wade averaged 21/5/5 and shot 52% from the field. His decline imo started the year before he signed with the Bulls.
    He did seem a little broken at times that year, and he wasn’t great in the playoffs.

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  • The Great One
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Lol. I did say that, didn't I? Repeatedly. However 2013 Wade was a shell of himself by then.

    Gotta admit that you guys are doing a great job making me feel a lot better about this deal.
    2013 Wade averaged 21/5/5 and shot 52% from the field. His decline imo started the year before he signed with the Bulls.

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  • Truth Teller
    replied
    GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post

    I gotta say, nothing you’ve said seems at all outlandish to me. I love Pascal and have a great deal of optimism. But people are talking about PS like there’s no chance his floor goes below what we saw of him alongside a superstar last year. When thrust into the #1 role, there’s every possibility that he tries to do too much and his efficiency craters. I don’t see that happening, especially insulated by the other 6 great pieces we have remaining from our championship squad. But it may look a lot more like an ensemble going forward than Pascal taking the reigns as a star.

    I’m not saying I don’t believe in Pascal. The assertion that golden is out to lunch though is dangerous and potentially setting him up for a big “I told you so” moment, which I pray never comes.

    I don’t think it would’ve been too insane to let this season ride and say show us that you can be our franchise player (when you don’t have a Kawhi drawing the attention that he does.) Now I guess we live in a world where a max player doesn’t have to be a franchise player... but that’s kind of effed.

    anyhow... GO SPICY.

    but I hear you golden.

    There is a chance, but this contract is mostly based on expectation. If he stays at this level, hes only worth about 75% of what we gave him. However if he plays like he did in the 4 wins against GoldenState - then hes worth this. If he goes beyond that, then this is a good deal for us. Raptors still have a lot of work to do in the next 2 years. A team of OG and Siakam is not enough. Will need to add another guy.
    Last edited by Truth Teller; Sun Oct 20th, 2019, 03:48 PM.

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  • GOLDBLUM
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Lol. I did say that, didn't I? Repeatedly. However 2013 Wade was a shell of himself by then.

    Gotta admit that you guys are doing a great job making me feel a lot better about this deal.
    I gotta say, nothing you’ve said seems at all outlandish to me. I love Pascal and have a great deal of optimism. But people are talking about PS like there’s no chance his floor goes below what we saw of him alongside a superstar last year. When thrust into the #1 role, there’s every possibility that he tries to do too much and his efficiency craters. I don’t see that happening, especially insulated by the other 6 great pieces we have remaining from our championship squad. But it may look a lot more like an ensemble going forward than Pascal taking the reigns as a star.

    I’m not saying I don’t believe in Pascal. The assertion that golden is out to lunch though is dangerous and potentially setting him up for a big “I told you so” moment, which I pray never comes.

    I don’t think it would’ve been too insane to let this season ride and say show us that you can be our franchise player (when you don’t have a Kawhi drawing the attention that he does.) Now I guess we live in a world where a max player doesn’t have to be a franchise player... but that’s kind of effed.

    anyhow... GO SPICY.

    but I hear you golden.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    The Great One wrote: View Post
    It's a great contract. Pascal is a guy that gets better every year(a lot like DeRozan).

    golden What's going on here? all playoffs last year you kept telling me Siakam > 2013 Wade. Now all of a sudden he's not worth the money? if Siakam > 2013 Wade then Siakam is pretty good right?
    Lol. I did say that, didn't I? Repeatedly. However 2013 Wade was a shell of himself by then.

    Gotta admit that you guys are doing a great job making me feel a lot better about this deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puffer
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    ...From Grange's article, Pascal's camp wanted a player option in that 4th year and ended up caving.
    I wonder if that was Pascal telling his agent team that he was happy with the deal and just get it done.

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  • The Great One
    replied
    It's a great contract. Pascal is a guy that gets better every year(a lot like DeRozan).

    golden What's going on here? all playoffs last year you kept telling me Siakam > 2013 Wade. Now all of a sudden he's not worth the money? if Siakam > 2013 Wade then Siakam is pretty good right?

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    Middleton has an all-star nod, Pascal does not. So Middleton is not quite Pascal's floor. But yeah, it's a good contract. 4 years, no options with a tough stipulation to get the 30% cap hit. I think it's a solid deal. Pascal could have given back something, but no player is doing that anymore. From Grange's article, Pascal's camp wanted a player option in that 4th year and ended up caving.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Guys, I even pushed for the Raptors trying to get him a couple million below max just to try to free up a little wiggle room in 2021, and still this is a perfectly fine deal. They did well to avoid the player option in the 4th year (that's what I proposed offering to get the sub-max deal) and also got him to up the requirements on the 30% max from all-NBA to top two all-NBA teams, which is a much higher bar and likely protects them from that higher salary unless he makes the leap to true superstar.

    But golden, there is a) no way Pascal wouldn't have gotten a max offer next summer (3 years + PO). Even if he stumbled this year in a primary role. Max contracts are not just for primary options, and he's already proved himself a top notch second option scorer and defender. And b) basically no way he isn't already worth that salary. There is basically only upside to this deal. In all likelihood he out-earns it. Hield and Brown are not comparables (and there's a solid chance both end up getting max offers in FA anyway).
    Give some kudo's to Masai and Webster for throwing that stipulation into his contract. That's actually pretty awesome. I just assumed he'd get the 30% if he ended up on the 3rd team which is pretty doable. If the Raps exceed expectations and get first/second seed in the East the media may give the Raptors perceived best player (ie, Siakam) a nod. Second team is really tough.. especially at the forward spot. If he gets it, he's a top 10 player and worthy of that 30% max.


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  • chris
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be overly thrilled with a Chandler Parsons type max player on our roster. I mean I fully understand that the market places him somewhere between an Otto Porter and a Khris Middleton max... which is exactly what he got. Most people think those guys are seriously overpaid. I suppose everybody else on this board is happy with an Porter/Middleton outcome? Or maybe it's just because we have no choice because FAs don't want to come to Toronto, despite Masai's protestations, and guys won't even take a penny less to play here.
    i don't think there's any scenario where the outcome is that bad since he's already better than those guys. but i'm with KHD, i think he could establish himself in the top 15 over the course of the contract. hell he's already in the top 25, according to espn and SI (lol)
    Last edited by chris; Sun Oct 20th, 2019, 01:36 PM.

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  • DanH
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    I totally get it GLF. The gamut of players who have extracted the max from the market is wide. From vastly overpaid to vastly underpaid. It's situational. You get what you can negotiate, not what you deserve.

    Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be overly thrilled with a Chandler Parsons type max player on our roster. I mean I fully understand that the market places him somewhere between an Otto Porter and a Khris Middleton max... which is exactly what he got. Most people think those guys are seriously overpaid. I suppose everybody else on this board is happy with an Porter/Middleton outcome? Or maybe it's just because we have no choice because FAs don't want to come to Toronto, despite Masai's protestations, and guys won't even take a penny less to play here.
    The point is that Porter/Middleton is Siakam's already established floor. So worst case we are paying market value for secondary talent (and still getting a positive return on investment - those guys are very good and worth that much to their teams, right now anyway). And of course there are miles of upside that doesn't exist for those two, and no real risk of decline like there is with Middleton (the term being the main reason people flinched at his deal).

    Seriously, the alternative was paying exactly this price next summer no matter how this year went, except probably with one less year of control, except in the scenario where Pascal turns out to be a complete lemon, in which case we are tanking for the next few years anyway.

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