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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    Oh, and I agree that right now those might be considered better trade assets than Pascal, but only because they'd be selling Pascal now when his value is at its lowest and basically guaranteed to leap up after this coming season. Which would be very, very, very silly of them to do.
    Glad you agree at present those are better trade assets. Yes, Pascal has upside. So do Wisemen, Kuminga, and likely even Wiggins.

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    • The time to make that trade was before the draft, so the Raptors could select the player they wanted. I don't see that deal being an option now.

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      • big boi wrote: View Post

        So you think Wiggins is a bad player?
        ... Yes? I mean he might be an OK player. Like, average, if you keep him in a small enough role not to be too damaging, like GSW did this year. But if we're discussing how Pascal compares to a max player like Tatum, why is Wiggins (who makes essentially the same amount) not held to the same standard?
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • big boi wrote: View Post

          Glad you agree at present those are better trade assets. Yes, Pascal has upside. So do Wisemen, Kuminga, and likely even Wiggins.
          Pascal has bankable upside, and his trade value right now is low based on actual performance.

          Those guys' trade value is literally negative based on actual performance. You are trading for ONLY upside, and it is very easily arguable that Pascal by himself has more upside than all those pieces combined, considering he has already realized (in the very recent past) 2nd team all-NBA potential.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            ... Yes? I mean he might be an OK player. Like, average, if you keep him in a small enough role not to be too damaging, like GSW did this year. But if we're discussing how Pascal compares to a max player like Tatum, why is Wiggins (who makes essentially the same amount) not held to the same standard?
            I'm not suggesting we trade Pascal straight up for Wiggins

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            • big boi wrote: View Post

              I'm not suggesting we trade Pascal straight up for Wiggins
              I didn't say you were. I said your descriptors for the various players in the deal seem odd, with Pascal's value being compared to Tatum's, while Wiggins you describe as a "good player" as though his contract is irrelevant to the trade value.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post

                Pascal has bankable upside, and his trade value right now is low based on actual performance.

                Those guys' trade value is literally negative based on actual performance. You are trading for ONLY upside, and it is very easily arguable that Pascal by himself has more upside than all those pieces combined, considering he has already realized (in the very recent past) 2nd team all-NBA potential.
                You believe Wiseman and Kuminga have negative trade value?

                He's also been prolifically awful, not just awful - prolifically awful, in the Boston series. More recently.

                He also had problems last year.

                Yeah, if we focus only on Siakam's successes, not on his failures. If we ignore his attitude problems. If we say that Wiggins is a bad player. If we say that Wiseman has negative trade value after his first year, specifically this past year (and that's just who he is presumably)..., and Kuminga somehow has negative trade value too?.... I guess if we say all of that, then yes.

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                • time for Wiggins Wiseman and picks for Siakam was before the draft. Now after the draft value of those picks significantly lower. I'm not doing the trade for Wiseman and Wiggins and Kuminga.
                  Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                    time for Wiggins Wiseman and picks for Siakam was before the draft. Now after the draft value of those picks significantly lower. I'm not doing the trade for Wiseman and Wiggins and Kuminga.
                    To this day, I still think that offer was just some kind of fantasy rumors, I doubt it was the REAL and Actual Offer for Siakam

                    I think that offer was too much for Warriors to Offer, and it laid a BAD Parameter Impression that this is the standard for Siakam, and anything lower than that is a no deal, I am not even sure Siakam is Good Enough to get this kind of deal. This deal is MUCH BETTER than what Houston got from Harden, and Wizards got from Westbrook, lets be real here.

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                    • Eric Montross 00 wrote: View Post

                      To this day, I still think that offer was just some kind of fantasy rumors, I doubt it was the REAL and Actual Offer for Siakam

                      I think that offer was too much for Warriors to Offer, and it laid a BAD Parameter Impression that this is the standard for Siakam, and anything lower than that is a no deal, I am not even sure Siakam is Good Enough to get this kind of deal. This deal is MUCH BETTER than what Houston got from Harden, and Wizards got from Westbrook, lets be real here.
                      Harden completely tanked his value with Houston. Everybody knew he was leaving and everybody knew he wanted a particular set of teams. Westbrook is trash so ofc I want more for Siakam
                      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                        Harden completely tanked his value with Houston. Everybody knew he was leaving and everybody knew he wanted a particular set of teams. Westbrook is trash so ofc I want more for Siakam
                        Honesty, I am being realistic here, I think on Warriors' side, they won't make Wiseman+Wiggins for Siakam deal, likely Moody+Wiggins, future picks for Siakam

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                        • Eric Montross 00 wrote: View Post

                          Honesty, I am being realistic here, I think on Warriors' side, they won't make Wiseman+Wiggins for Siakam deal, likely Moody+Wiggins, future picks for Siakam
                          I think you can push them for an overpay for Pascal. The trio of Curry, Klay and Draymond don't have a lot of time left to win a championship, Pascal might be the perfect player to slot into that trio.

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                          • A.I wrote: View Post

                            I think you can push them for an overpay for Pascal. The trio of Curry, Klay and Draymond don't have a lot of time left to win a championship, Pascal might be the perfect player to slot into that trio.
                            ONLY at the trade deadline, when they see they are one piece away to win it all, and they are in the top 2 seed in the West, then they can go ALL IN (Kinda like we traded JV+Wright+Bruno for Gasol), and honesty that was quite a lot to give up

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                            • I think a lot of the negatives in terms of Pascal performance last year were a result of leaving him on an island. You would see elite players output drop on any team playing 4 on 5, which the raptors did for most of the season.

                              Combine that with covid, no home court, living away from home all year and the year before, etc, and you have a perfect storm working against him, and he still did faily well.

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                              • big boi wrote: View Post

                                What about in last year's Boston Series? Or if we're not going to cherry pick, what about the whole playoffs. How did he shoot as a total last year, again not cherry picking.

                                How does Siakam compare and contrast to a max player like Tatum?
                                NBA.com player stats database is super cool
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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