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  • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
    the plan was always a form of positionless.. I dont know how good your memory is but we were gearing up to potentially get Giannis until he resigned and then obviously tampa was tampa... its why we held off on giving OG a deal until Giannis resigned... Giannis was likely going to play small ball center even though he is 7 feet.


    The idea has always been positionless. Look at the guys Masai has typically drafted unless it was the best available player like Poeltl left. If there were options and he could pick and choose that is who this front office has valued was long wing defenders. Koloko fits because he is mobile like mobley but also allows them to play more aggressive on the perimeter with their defence. Yes he is a seven footer, but he isn't a traditional center.. so without you actually saying a name I have no idea what you mean. Would another guy help yes it always does help but is it priority over trading (NOT SIGNING OR DRAFTING) assets to go grab? I would argue no. One of the other reasons why a guy like Koloko helps with is it takes the physical toll away from Siakam who had to play center minute as did Barnes. As did OG. Sure in a playoff setting they can do it in spurts but for 82 games it will slowly wear them down.


    So again who is the name or set of names you are suggesting. Turner would fit... sure... but with koloko would he take minutes away and opportunities away from Koloko... You would also still have birch left unless you dealt birch as an outgoing salary as well.. again.. Not sure if that is worth while.. Not bad but not necessarily worth while.. Poeltl is a possibility for Khem and Malachi... I am not against that he grades out in the 97th percentile defensively... Can't shoot free throws ... but again are you freezing out Koloko (poeltl is the only center i'd attempt to get). If its richaun holmes I think he is overrated compared to poeltl.... Koloko has higher offensive upside than those two guys in my opinion especially with his early passing flashes and patience on the ball.

    Those are your only realistic options. KAT ... I remember him getting played off the floor because of how porous his defence was in the playoffs. Rebounding isn't really our issue at all.. So again what problem are you solving getting a hypothetical center and who are you getting to solve that...?



    The idea of Koloko at his peak, assuming you actually watched his college game at all, is he could be a better passing and offensive version of Gobert who is much more mobile. like WAY more mobile.


    Vuc .... really the guy who was a bloody sieve in chicago's back line defence? That ain't it. Nurkic ... I will give credit to ... is actually a really good defender not sure if he is able to defend the way we want to defend but he is a good defender .... but he is also injury prone... last 4 seasons games played.... (56, 37, 8). Steven Adams is interesting or would have been at least.. but then you are going back towards the traditional big man problem on offence and potentially on defence. Adams is not a versatile defender at all nor is Nurkic.... and that is what our defensive system needs. We need a very particular type of big which is not traditional and more modern and most of your suggestions don't adhere to those requirements so its kind of a frivolous suggestion especially given those specific names.


    A name we should have gone after a long time ago but its too late now.. and we did actually go after him but we didn't get him... was al horford. Brandon clark is interesting... or Jaren Jackson Junior when healthy...


    if we valued the centers in our system that you value then we would have just signed drummond.
    The idea was always to go positionless?
    Why did they trade for Gary then?
    Why did they draft Flynn?

    Why were they always looking to get the likes of Poetl, and Turner, and Mamba, etc?

    Their plan back then was to get a center via trade or FA.

    *
    l was thinking Nurkic too, but wrote Vuc instead. My bad.
    But Adams is valuable in the playoffs, and for the Grizzlies in general.
    If you read interviews of their players and coaches, even Ja, they are so happy with him.

    Comment


    • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

      I don't think Kag watches those interviews ... and Webster and Nurse have had multiple interviews about this exact issue too. But if someone has their mind made up about playing an older style and doesn't listen to what the team is saying OR is saying that they are just posturing in interviews for 3-4 years (not saying anyone here has said that but I have a friend who literally thinks that)...then I dont know what to tell that person.
      I know.
      but this is recent.

      Now answer this, why did they draft a Center?
      I don't understand how adding a solid big would mean we are suddenly playing traditional.

      Comment


      • I think they targeted position-less during the Scottie draft. They drafted Scottie, Dalano and Johnson. All 6'7 - 6'8 guys. They also brought in Champagnie, Bonga and Svi (all 6'7-6'9 guys). They signed back Khem (6'9) in the off season using their mid-level. They traded Lowry for Precious (6'9) and Dragic who they flipped for Thad (6'8).

        In the draft they went after Koloko mainly I think because he can guard the perimeter and that was one thing they talked a lot about after getting him. They also brought back Thad, Chris and acquired Porter (who's 6'8 I believe).



        Comment


        • Also Hernangomez (6'7) and Harper Jr (6'7) were brought in this summer.

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          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            I think they targeted position-less during the Scottie draft. They drafted Scottie, Dalano and Johnson. All 6'7 - 6'8 guys. They also brought in Champagnie, Bonga and Svi (all 6'7-6'9 guys). They signed back Khem (6'9) in the off season using their mid-level. They traded Lowry for Precious (6'9) and Dragic who they flipped for Thad (6'8).

            In the draft they went after Koloko mainly I think because he can guard the perimeter and that was one thing they talked a lot about after getting him. They also brought back Thad, Chris and acquired Porter (who's 6'8 I believe).


            They fully embraced it this year.
            That experiment starred way back in 2018 l guess. But only experimental. Nurse would use it in spurts. Now they seem to be all in.

            Positionless doesn't mean we can not use the right center though. In fact we even drafted one.
            You still have to vary your schemes, especially in the playoffs

            Comment


            • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

              I know.
              but this is recent.

              Now answer this, why did they draft a Center?
              I don't understand how adding a solid big would mean we are suddenly playing traditional.
              Have you been watching the games? Koloko is not a traditional center. He fits our defensive scheme perfectly.

              Comment


              • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                They fully embraced it this year.
                That experiment starred way back in 2018 l guess. But only experimental. Nurse would use it in spurts. Now they seem to be all in.

                Positionless doesn't mean we can not use the right center though. In fact we even drafted one.
                You still have to vary your schemes, especially in the playoffs
                Masai always had his type. Maybe we were dabbling in position-less as we had Pascal and brought in Kawhi the year after. But I think Masai just likes length. He was fascinated with wing span even in his days in Denver.

                But to just have 6'7-6'9 guys on the team.. that basically started last summer. Koloko is an exception but he fits that Masai archetype. A long player that can play multiple positions.


                Comment


                • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                  The idea was always to go positionless?
                  Why did they trade for Gary then?
                  Why did they draft Flynn?

                  Why were they always looking to get the likes of Poetl, and Turner, and Mamba, etc?

                  Their plan back then was to get a center via trade or FA.

                  *
                  l was thinking Nurkic too, but wrote Vuc instead. My bad.
                  But Adams is valuable in the playoffs, and for the Grizzlies in general.
                  If you read interviews of their players and coaches, even Ja, they are so happy with him.
                  positionless doesn't mean every single dude needs to be.....6'9 but its about switchability. Yes you will have so variations on it ideally yes everyone is a pascal, scottie, or an OG. but not all will be that.

                  Jake Laravia and Tari Eason were guys they looked at who are long switchable playmaking wings but again I don't sense that you actually watch college ball.

                  I already answered your question about poeltl or turner so refer to the post that you quoted. Turner would have fit into positionless basketball because he can play multiple positions is a versatile defender scores in the 100th percentile for some advanced metrics. perhaps I should bold the keywords to make it easier to read. versatile, portability, switchable. Poeltl is surprisingly versatile so he is the only one that is an outlier for the guys not named turner or a mo bamba.

                  Koloko fell into our laps. If Koloko wasn't drafted ( I wanted him or to trade up and get a guy like eason, or who was available with the atlanta pick and I was pretty public about wanting bogdanovic, and ATL's first for trent and our pick). In our range koloko, caleb houstan, and one other guy was of interest.


                  The draft happens before free agency ... at least last time I checked... while the draft doesn't necessarily dictate your free agency moves because you should be drafting BPA ... it does sometimes effect free agency if the BPA addresses one of the needs you had.

                  Nurkic was a decent one for you. Adams was ok for buying minutes because JJJ was still working his way back and hten got injured AGAIN.. but JJJ is their long term future if he can get healthy. I answered why its valuable to have a more traditiional center even if its not the thing htat the raptors feel like they need at this specific time. Heck a good thing about birch is he was able to take some of the hits and bumps and bruises involved with playing embiid and take that away from the rest of the guys I mentioned in the above post. You don't want to grind those guys into dust throughout a season... but now that we have koloko ... why.


                  Gary was acquired because we were trying to make sure we didn't lose norm for nothing because clearly we didn't value norm for the long term.



                  Flynn is a tricky one ... I think in their mind they saw an end to the lowry era and perhaps they were hopeful he could step into that role as a back up..... They should have taken Desmond Bane... who would be perfect on this team oh my word.




                  In terms of your last point about them being happy.. the grizzlies aren't trying to do a positionless style they are doing something else... that is their team this is ours. Adams isn't a bad player.. heck the nba is a brotherhood so there is camaraderie.... he isn't a bad teammate ... generally a good dude and person.. that doesn't mean he fits what we want...

                  Again I willl say it ... the raptors style needs a particular type of center who is high IQ or shows the potential for growth in that area... and who can be extremely switchable, mobile, and versatile as defenders. Turner is the one guy who if we got.. I wouldn't be mad but we would have to then figure out birch out going... but it would take GTJ.. and I just don't think its a massive upgrade... its a lateral move.. If we didn't have Koloko I could see us going for it ....

                  Webster has dropped nuggets about this in interviews multiple times this off season ... which you didn't hear .... cause obviously then you wouldn't be asking this question and then perpetuating it. If its Poeltl or Turner sure... but again compared to other things that could use help.. it is lower on the priority list.

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                  • Primer wrote: View Post

                    Have you been watching the games? Koloko is not a traditional center. He fits our defensive scheme perfectly.
                    Again, i am not saying we should look for a traditional big. Besides there's not a lot of them anymore anyway

                    Comment


                    • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                      positionless doesn't mean every single dude needs to be.....6'9 but its about switchability. Yes you will have so variations on it ideally yes everyone is a pascal, scottie, or an OG. but not all will be that.

                      Jake Laravia and Tari Eason were guys they looked at who are long switchable playmaking wings but again I don't sense that you actually watch college ball.

                      I already answered your question about poeltl or turner so refer to the post that you quoted. Turner would have fit into positionless basketball because he can play multiple positions is a versatile defender scores in the 100th percentile for some advanced metrics. perhaps I should bold the keywords to make it easier to read. versatile, portability, switchable. Poeltl is surprisingly versatile so he is the only one that is an outlier for the guys not named turner or a mo bamba.

                      Koloko fell into our laps. If Koloko wasn't drafted ( I wanted him or to trade up and get a guy like eason, or who was available with the atlanta pick and I was pretty public about wanting bogdanovic, and ATL's first for trent and our pick). In our range koloko, caleb houstan, and one other guy was of interest.


                      The draft happens before free agency ... at least last time I checked... while the draft doesn't necessarily dictate your free agency moves because you should be drafting BPA ... it does sometimes effect free agency if the BPA addresses one of the needs you had.

                      Nurkic was a decent one for you. Adams was ok for buying minutes because JJJ was still working his way back and hten got injured AGAIN.. but JJJ is their long term future if he can get healthy. I answered why its valuable to have a more traditiional center even if its not the thing htat the raptors feel like they need at this specific time. Heck a good thing about birch is he was able to take some of the hits and bumps and bruises involved with playing embiid and take that away from the rest of the guys I mentioned in the above post. You don't want to grind those guys into dust throughout a season... but now that we have koloko ... why.


                      Gary was acquired because we were trying to make sure we didn't lose norm for nothing because clearly we didn't value norm for the long term.



                      Flynn is a tricky one ... I think in their mind they saw an end to the lowry era and perhaps they were hopeful he could step into that role as a back up..... They should have taken Desmond Bane... who would be perfect on this team oh my word.




                      In terms of your last point about them being happy.. the grizzlies aren't trying to do a positionless style they are doing something else... that is their team this is ours. Adams isn't a bad player.. heck the nba is a brotherhood so there is camaraderie.... he isn't a bad teammate ... generally a good dude and person.. that doesn't mean he fits what we want...

                      Again I willl say it ... the raptors style needs a particular type of center who is high IQ or shows the potential for growth in that area... and who can be extremely switchable, mobile, and versatile as defenders. Turner is the one guy who if we got.. I wouldn't be mad but we would have to then figure out birch out going... but it would take GTJ.. and I just don't think its a massive upgrade... its a lateral move.. If we didn't have Koloko I could see us going for it ....

                      Webster has dropped nuggets about this in interviews multiple times this off season ... which you didn't hear .... cause obviously then you wouldn't be asking this question and then perpetuating it. If its Poeltl or Turner sure... but again compared to other things that could use help.. it is lower on the priority list.
                      I don't know why you all get the sense that i said i want a traditional big. Lol
                      Is it bcoz i mentioned Adams?
                      I only wanted him primarily on D. Strong, big tough guy that can go toe to toe with his counterparts in the EC.
                      Also can rebound which we are currently horrible at.
                      When you have not a lot of shooters and you have no rebounders, perfect formula for disaster.

                      If you can recall the names I advocated for last season were Turner and Mamba.
                      Non traditional bigs at all.

                      Comment


                      • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                        I don't know why you all get the sense that i said i want a traditional big. Lol
                        Is it bcoz i mentioned Adams?
                        I only wanted him primarily on D. Strong, big tough guy that can go toe to toe with his counterparts in the EC.
                        Also can rebound which we are currently horrible at.
                        When you have not a lot of shooters and you have no rebounders, perfect formula for disaster.

                        If you can recall the names I advocated for last season were Turner and Mamba.
                        Non traditional bigs at all.
                        because of the obsession for a center in general. I am surprised you even said turner or mamba. but again we got koloko time to actually develop him.



                        I think mamba and turner would be solid fits but again I dont think we need them.


                        Why do you say we have no rebounders when we haven't had rebounding issues in any single game thus far

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post

                          Masai always had his type. Maybe we were dabbling in position-less as we had Pascal and brought in Kawhi the year after. But I think Masai just likes length. He was fascinated with wing span even in his days in Denver.

                          But to just have 6'7-6'9 guys on the team.. that basically started last summer. Koloko is an exception but he fits that Masai archetype. A long player that can play multiple positions.

                          flynn was also an outlier

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                          • Mamba Mentality

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                            • The Great One wrote: View Post
                              Like when you break up with your hot girlfriend but remain "friends" .... usually only one of you thinks that's true

                              Comment


                              • Any News on Siakim?
                                He should be coming back soon, right..
                                "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
                                My kitchen is always open to friends"

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