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  • iblastoff wrote: View Post

    pascal has had a -3.8 net rating in march. him and scottie barnes are the only starters with negative net ratings.

    best players for the raps this month though? fred with +4.2 and poeltl with +3.3.
    Amazing what happens when you have Scottie and Pascal anchor absolutely nonsensical bench groups.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • I said this a million times already, I'm not bringing Siakam back next year. Run it back? hell no. Forget the Scottie element for a minute. Siakam is just not good enough. No way this guy is worth the max.

      He really reminds me of Abdur Rahim. Multiple time all star, perennial 20/10 guy but you also know he's going to disappear in close games. You can't rely on him. Siakam is the SAR of this generation.
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      • The Great One wrote: View Post
        I said this a million times already, I'm not bringing Siakam back next year. Run it back? hell no. Forget the Scottie element for a minute. Siakam is just not good enough. No way this guy is worth the max.

        He really reminds me of Abdur Rahim. Multiple time all star, perennial 20/10 guy but you also know he's going to disappear in close games. You can't rely on him. Siakam is the SAR of this generation.
        In rare agreement here

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        • The Great One wrote: View Post
          I said this a million times already, I'm not bringing Siakam back next year. Run it back? hell no. Forget the Scottie element for a minute. Siakam is just not good enough. No way this guy is worth the max.

          He really reminds me of Abdur Rahim. Multiple time all star, perennial 20/10 guy but you also know he's going to disappear in close games. You can't rely on him. Siakam is the SAR of this generation.
          Pascal runs into some limitations late in games as defences load up on him as the primary option.

          Of course, long term we don't plan on Pascal being the primary option, that should be Scottie as he grows into it, and we've literally seen Pascal hit a championship clinching basket late in the game as a secondary scoring option so I'm none too worried about that. Heck even more recently when he was working with Lowry as primary creator in the post-chip swan song Pascal put up a 33% usage rate and 63% TS% in the clutch. It's only as Pascal has moved into primary that he's struggled late, and that's not where we want him long term so I don't see the problem. He's a high quality 2nd guy (in that he's a bottom half top option) which is exactly what we'd spend a half decade struggling to find for Scottie if we dumped him. And, yes, you pay the max for that. Although both I and the team will be happy if he manages to dodge any further all-NBA selections so the supermax isn't a concern.
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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            Pascal runs into some limitations late in games as defences load up on him as the primary option.

            Of course, long term we don't plan on Pascal being the primary option, that should be Scottie as he grows into it, and we've literally seen Pascal hit a championship clinching basket late in the game as a secondary scoring option so I'm none too worried about that. Heck even more recently when he was working with Lowry as primary creator in the post-chip swan song Pascal put up a 33% usage rate and 63% TS% in the clutch. It's only as Pascal has moved into primary that he's struggled late, and that's not where we want him long term so I don't see the problem. He's a high quality 2nd guy (in that he's a bottom half top option) which is exactly what we'd spend a half decade struggling to find for Scottie if we dumped him. And, yes, you pay the max for that. Although both I and the team will be happy if he manages to dodge any further all-NBA selections so the supermax isn't a concern.
            How do you know that he's a high quality 2nd guy? I don't know. I don't like the 2nd best player on a championship team narrative. This has been going on since they won it all. It's just not true.

            The Raptors second best player in 2019 was KYLE LOWRY. Are people really going to argue this? If you're going to argue that Kyle was the second best player but Pascal was the 2nd option on offense, that's also not true. The 2nd option was whoever was hot that night. The 2nd option in G7 against Philly was Ibaka. The 2nd option in G3 against the Bucks was Pascal. In G4 it was Kyle. In G5 it was Fred. G6 was a total team effort.

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            • Btw, I also don't think Kyle in his prime was good enough to be the 2nd best player on a championship team. A lot of things just went right for the Raptors in 2019. One, Kawhi played like Superman that entire playoff run and two: the KD injury.
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              • The Great One wrote: View Post

                How do you know that he's a high quality 2nd guy? I don't know. I don't like the 2nd best player on a championship team narrative. This has been going on since they won it all. It's just not true.

                The Raptors second best player in 2019 was KYLE LOWRY. Are people really going to argue this? If you're going to argue that Kyle was the second best player but Pascal was the 2nd option on offense, that's also not true. The 2nd option was whoever was hot that night. The 2nd option in G7 against Philly was Ibaka. The 2nd option in G3 against the Bucks was Pascal. In G4 it was Kyle. In G5 it was Fred. G6 was a total team effort.
                Huh, reading back through my post and not seeing where I said he was the second best player on the championship team. Glad you picked up on that after writing half your post.

                As for Pascal not being the second option, he averaged 16 FGAs per game in that playoff run. Lowry was the next closest at 11. No one else broke double digits. It's pretty crazy not to be able to recognize Pascal as the 2nd option in that playoff run.
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                • The Great One wrote: View Post

                  How do you know that he's a high quality 2nd guy? I don't know. I don't like the 2nd best player on a championship team narrative. This has been going on since they won it all. It's just not true.

                  The Raptors second best player in 2019 was KYLE LOWRY. Are people really going to argue this? If you're going to argue that Kyle was the second best player but Pascal was the 2nd option on offense, that's also not true. The 2nd option was whoever was hot that night. The 2nd option in G7 against Philly was Ibaka. The 2nd option in G3 against the Bucks was Pascal. In G4 it was Kyle. In G5 it was Fred. G6 was a total team effort.
                  So Pascal averaged 20 in the Playoffs by just being hot?

                  That what makes a championship team. When you have you have role players step up, but Pascal for majority of the Playoffs was 2nd in scoring (except the Bucks series where he struggled a bit).

                  You could argue Kyle as the 2nd option as he was the floor general, but it was basically Pascal and Kyle as 2a/2b.

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                  • I don't see #1 player in Scottie. He's young and guys have different development curves, but he doesn't seem like an alpha type of guy to me. He could be a good #2 though, like Pascal was in 2019.

                    Ultimately I just don't like the Scottie/Pascal fit. I'd prefer to trade Pascal so we can unlock more of Scottie's potential. Pascal will be more valued once he gets his extension. So I'm willing to wait 2 more years to move him. I think that's when he'll have his peak trade value.

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                    • A.I wrote: View Post

                      So Pascal averaged 20 in the Playoffs by just being hot?

                      That what makes a championship team. When you have you have role players step up, but Pascal for majority of the Playoffs was 2nd in scoring (except the Bucks series where he struggled a bit).

                      You could argue Kyle as the 2nd option as he was the floor general, but it was basically Pascal and Kyle as 2a/2b.
                      So you disagree that Kyle was their second best player in 2019? Just because Siakam averaged more doesn't mean he was the second best player on the team.
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                      • The Great One wrote: View Post

                        So you disagree that Kyle was their second best player in 2019? Just because Siakam averaged more doesn't mean he was the second best player on the team.
                        I never said second best. I always make sure to say second leading scorer.

                        Kyle has always been super heavily underrated during his Raptors tenure. Including the 2019 season where some fans wanted to trade him for Conley.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post

                          Huh, reading back through my post and not seeing where I said he was the second best player on the championship team. Glad you picked up on that after writing half your post.

                          As for Pascal not being the second option, he averaged 16 FGAs per game in that playoff run. Lowry was the next closest at 11. No one else broke double digits. It's pretty crazy not to be able to recognize Pascal as the 2nd option in that playoff run.
                          C'mon, 2019 was just 4 years ago. I remember everything. There was no Scottie Pippen or second option during that playoff run. The second option was whoever was hot that night.

                          I remember Ibaka as the only player that showed up other than Kawhi in Game 7 against Philly. I remember how terrific Lowry was in Game 4 against the Bucks. All eyes were on him that night because he stupidly fouled out in Game 3. Game 5 was the FVV game.

                          Siakam was sensational in G1 against the Warriors. Game 3 Lowry controlled the game. Like, probably his best game of the playoffs. G4 I think was the game where Ibaka scored 20 and blocked everything. Game 6 was a tale of two halves. Lowry came out firing in the 1st half. FVV hit big shots after big shots in the 2nd half. And Siakam hit that huge bucket late in the 4th to ice tea game.

                          There was no 2nd option. Lowry though was the undisputed second best player on the team.
                          Last edited by The Great One; Tue Mar 21, 2023, 03:27 PM.
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                          • A.I wrote: View Post

                            I never said second best. I always make sure to say second leading scorer.

                            Kyle has always been super heavily underrated during his Raptors tenure. Including the 2019 season where some fans wanted to trade him for Conley.
                            But I'm talking about who was the second best player though.
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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post
                              I don't see #1 player in Scottie. He's young and guys have different development curves, but he doesn't seem like an alpha type of guy to me. He could be a good #2 though, like Pascal was in 2019.

                              Ultimately I just don't like the Scottie/Pascal fit. I'd prefer to trade Pascal so we can unlock more of Scottie's potential. Pascal will be more valued once he gets his extension. So I'm willing to wait 2 more years to move him. I think that's when he'll have his peak trade value.
                              Obviously not every team even has a true number 1 unless you're just saying on their team. I don't see Scotty ever being an NBA Alpha number 1 either and don't think he's ever been projected to be. He'll be a high end complimentary piece imo that keeps us looking for a #1 that we can never sign as a FA and seldom finish low enough to draft.

                              There's our next 5 years in a nutshell.

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                              • Also, I've said this since last year. Siakam is the greatest PF in Raps history BUT Bosh overall was the better player. Anyone going to disagree with that?

                                Bosh was GREAT. He's in the HOF for a reason. But we also know he wasn't good enough to be the best player or the second best player on a championship team. He got his chance to be the second best player on the Heat after LeBron left and the Heat were barely a playoff team.

                                You're telling me that Siakam who's a lesser player than Bosh is good enough to be the second best player on a championship team? That's crazy.
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