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  • As for Siakam averaging 19ppg in 2019 playoffs. To be honest, I can't remember anything about the Magic series other than Kyle Lowry scoring zero points in Game 1. But my guess is Siakam put up massive numbers in that series. Because I don't remember him doing much in the Sixers series and I already pointed out what happened in the Bucks and Warriors series.
    Mamba Mentality

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    • The Great One wrote: View Post

      But I'm talking about who was the second best player though.
      Well we are in 2023 now. Pascal has improved quite a bit since. What makes you think he can't be the 2nd best player now?

      If hypothetically we had a legit #1 like Kawhi here, you don't think things would be easier for Pascal who is averaging 25 PPG as a #1 option currently? He won't see as many double teams, will play off of a superstar, he'd exert less energy on offense and he'd likely be better off in general.

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      • A.I wrote: View Post

        Well we are in 2023 now. Pascal has improved quite a bit since. What makes you think he can't be the 2nd best player now?
        Is this version of Siakam better than the Raptors version of Chris Bosh?
        Mamba Mentality

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        • The Great One wrote: View Post

          C'mon, 2019 was just 4 years ago. I remember everything. There was no Scottie Pippen or second option during that playoff run. The second option was whoever was hot that night.

          I remember Ibaka as the only player that showed up other than Kawhi in Game 7 against Philly. I remember how terrific Lowry was in Game 4 against the Bucks. All eyes were on him that night because he stupidly fouled out in Game 3. Game 5 was the FVV game.

          Siakam was sensational in G1 against the Warriors. Game 3 Lowry controlled the game. Like, probably his best game of the playoffs. G4 I think was the game where Ibaka scored 20 and blocked everything. Game 6 was a tale of two halves. Lowry came out firing in the 1st half. FVV hit big shots after big shots in the 2nd half. And Siakam hit that huge bucket late in the 4th to ice tea game.

          There was no 2nd option. Lowry though was the undisputed second best player on the team.
          This is bonkers. "I remember those playoffs." Sure. And none of us do.

          No second option has the second most shots every single night. Of course there will be nights you need someone else to step up. That doesn't mean you don't have a second option. It means the second option had a bad night, or the defence gameplanned around taking that second option away.

          Kyle Lowry averaged the third most shots on the team in that playoff run with 11 attempts a game. Pascal had fewer than 11 attempts... twice. In 24 games. He was the second option night in and night out, and sometimes defences take away the second option which is why you have more than two options!

          Pascal was undeniably the second option on that team for that playoff run. Heck, he and Kawhi like had a (near? top three or something) record setting playoff run in terms of total points by the top two players on a team. Yes Kawhi was amazing but they didn't set records by having Kawhi and a different second option every night.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • The Great One wrote: View Post
            As for Siakam averaging 19ppg in 2019 playoffs. To be honest, I can't remember anything about the Magic series other than Kyle Lowry scoring zero points in Game 1. But my guess is Siakam put up massive numbers in that series. Because I don't remember him doing much in the Sixers series and I already pointed out what happened in the Bucks and Warriors series.
            LOL I thought you remembered everything about that playoff run.

            Pascal averaged 23 against the Magic.
            19 against the 76ers.
            15 against the Bucks.
            20 against the Warriors.

            Hmm, yes, he did score the most against the worst opponent (shock) but the only team he struggled to consistently score against were the Bucks.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • DanH wrote: View Post

              LOL I thought you remembered everything about that playoff run.

              Pascal averaged 23 against the Magic.
              19 against the 76ers.
              15 against the Bucks.
              20 against the Warriors.

              Hmm, yes, he did score the most against the worst opponent (shock) but the only team he struggled to consistently score against were the Bucks.
              I remember the 3 most important series. Nobody cares about that Orlando series. You seriously remember anythingbthat happened in that series other than Kyle laying a goose egg in G1? stop it.

              I suggest you watch the games that I mentioned - G7 against Philly, G4-6 against the Bucks and G1-6 against the Warriors and tell me if he was the second option in those games other than G1 against the Warriors of course.

              Mamba Mentality

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              • The Great One wrote: View Post

                Is this version of Siakam better than the Raptors version of Chris Bosh?
                I'd say so. Pascal can shoot the 3, Bosh at the time rarely took them, and Pascal is a better playmaker.

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                • The Great One wrote: View Post

                  I remember the 3 most important series. Nobody cares about that Orlando series. You seriously remember anythingbthat happened in that series other than Kyle laying a goose egg in G1? stop it.

                  I suggest you watch the games that I mentioned - G7 against Philly, G4-6 against the Bucks and G1-6 against the Warriors and tell me if he was the second option in those games other than G1 against the Warriors of course.
                  Just looking at the NBA finals.. Pascal had the second most FG attempts in every game for the Raptors except the last, where he had the most (1 more than Kawhi). I'd say that qualifies as being a second option.

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                  • The Great One wrote: View Post

                    I remember the 3 most important series. Nobody cares about that Orlando series. You seriously remember anythingbthat happened in that series other than Kyle laying a goose egg in G1? stop it.

                    I suggest you watch the games that I mentioned - G7 against Philly, G4-6 against the Bucks and G1-6 against the Warriors and tell me if he was the second option in those games other than G1 against the Warriors of course.
                    Yes, he was. He struggled but he was definitely the 2nd option.

                    Let's look at the NBA freaking finals.

                    Game 1 he was obviously amazing, most shots on the team and 32 points leading the team in scoring.

                    Game 2 he was bad, but not for lack of being the 2nd option. He still took the 2nd most shots, he just missed a lot. 12 points on 18 shots. Fred had a huge usage game for him and STILL took less shots than Pascal, because Pascal is the second option.

                    Game 3 he was tied for the second most shots with Lowry. Big game from Lowry.

                    Game 4 he had the second most shots. Again big games from Lowry and Serge in terms of shot attempts compared to their averages almost had them at comparable shot attempt totals. But not quite. Because of course. He's the second option.

                    Game 5 Lowry again went off and Pascal struggled, so Lowry had one more shot than Pascal.

                    Game 7 Pascal led the team in shots and scored 26 (again leading the team) in closing out the championship run.

                    No other player besides Kawhi led the team in shots or scoring in that series. No other player besides Kawhi and Pascal was in the top 3 in shots every single night.

                    Because Kawhi was the first option. And Pascal was the second. It could not be more clear.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • I don't think its hard to understand.

                      Pascal took the second most shot attempts in the Playoffs, so that makes him the second option. Whether he lived up to expectations as a second option is a different discussion.

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                      • G____Deane wrote: View Post

                        Obviously not every team even has a true number 1 unless you're just saying on their team. I don't see Scotty ever being an NBA Alpha number 1 either and don't think he's ever been projected to be. He'll be a high end complimentary piece imo that keeps us looking for a #1 that we can never sign as a FA and seldom finish low enough to draft.

                        There's our next 5 years in a nutshell.
                        100%.
                        I see Scottie as our next Lowry, a heart and soul leader but not necessarily the best player.
                        Last edited by Kagemusha; Tue Mar 21, 2023, 04:39 PM.

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                        • G____Deane wrote: View Post

                          Obviously not every team even has a true number 1 unless you're just saying on their team. I don't see Scotty ever being an NBA Alpha number 1 either and don't think he's ever been projected to be. He'll be a high end complimentary piece imo that keeps us looking for a #1 that we can never sign as a FA and seldom finish low enough to draft.

                          There's our next 5 years in a nutshell.
                          5 years is a long time in the NBA.

                          I mean there are many ways to achieve success in the NBA. The best two teams in either conference got their super stars outside the lottery. And free agency is fool's gold because it requires having a payroll so low that you can even be a player in free agency. That would mean having a lot of rookie scale contracts or expiring deals. If the Raptors setup their payroll that way they could be players. The last time they had that, it was to chase Giannis. But he extended at the last possible second. And instead of chasing guys like Holmes we decided to just to bring in cheap vets like Len and Baynes instead and ultimately get Scottie for it.

                          My personal belief is that if you have a good scouting team then picking anywhere in the draft will work out okay most often than not. I also believe in flexibility. Which means having as many good contracts on your payroll as well as a collection of draft picks, so that when a star or someone of significance becomes available you can make a legit play for them.

                          Cleveland got Mitchell using that flexibility. Of course now they have no real way to make their team better as they gave away that currency for Mitchell. So they might be stuck with the team they have for the next little while. The Raptors can pivot a lot easier if they wanted.

                          I think we could get a collection of good assets for Pascal that will help us support Scottie. One of those assets might end up being the key asset that gets converted to a star. Either by that being a pick we draft and develop, or an asset we end up using in a subsequent trade for a star later on.

                          But Pascal's highest trade value will be when he has like 3-4 years left on his deal. So I think we should wait until he gets his next contract before we move him, even if it means we are a 45'ish win club for the next 1-2 years.

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                          • I don't think Scottie will ever be a #1 option, but I could see him being the most important player on the team.

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                            • Good stuff.

                              Mamba Mentality

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                              • The Great One wrote: View Post
                                Good stuff.

                                that was good stuff.

                                love pascal. gonna miss him after we trade him and hope we retire his jersey one day

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