We Still the North, for better or worse: a brief history of the Toronto Raptors coming up short.

[planetmars]

I dunno. I think the treadmill term gets thrown around way too widely nowadays. It's definition seems to have evolved from a team that finished 6th to 10th in the Conference for multiple years in a row... to any team that goes a couple seasons without either a) winning a title or b) blowing it up. I'd consider the Charlottes, Detroits and Indiana's of the East as current treadmillers... the Raptors not so much. Maybe I'm a bit biased but I think that's ultimately where the author misses the mark.

I realize he does acknowledge that there's value in being a 50 win team for multiple years and doesn't really advocate for a rebuild quite yet; I'm just not a fan of the thought process that Ujiri refusing to employ a roster overhaul is being he's "satisfied" with where they're at. As if he's worked so tirelessly since arriving in Toronto to regenerate the franchise but now he's not interested or motivated to reach any success beyond it. I think he's just decided that he's going to work on reaching that next level as a team from their current status - at least for the next couple of seasons - rather than pressing the reset button and trying to do it from there. The reality is that the odds are largely stacked against him no matter what path he chooses. Winning an NBA championship is really, really hard.

That's my definition of treadmill.

[Fully]

I'm not sure either of those narratives apply to this article, which explicitly states we are not on a Grizzlies-like path in the closing paragraph.

I thought the premise of the article was more about whether we're satisfied being on the treadmill.

On a side note, here is how Blake Griffin views his team's success after five consecutive 50-win seasons.

I dunno. I think the treadmill term gets thrown around way too widely nowadays. It's definition seems to have evolved from a team that finished 6th to 10th in the Conference for multiple years in a row... to any team that goes a couple seasons without either a) winning a title or b) blowing it up. I'd consider the Charlottes, Detroits and Indiana's of the East as current treadmillers... the Raptors not so much. Maybe I'm a bit biased but I think that's ultimately where the author misses the mark.

I realize he does acknowledge that there's value in being a 50 win team for multiple years and doesn't really advocate for a rebuild quite yet; I'm just not a fan of the thought process that Ujiri refusing to employ a roster overhaul is being he's "satisfied" with where they're at. As if he's worked so tirelessly since arriving in Toronto to regenerate the franchise but now he's not interested or motivated to reach any success beyond it. I think he's just decided that he's going to work on reaching that next level as a team from their current status - at least for the next couple of seasons - rather than pressing the reset button and trying to do it from there. The reality is that the odds are largely stacked against him no matter what path he chooses. Winning an NBA championship is really, really hard.

[Demographic Shift]

Question is who will hit that shot? Demar derozan? OG Anunoby? Or 2055 first round pick lebron james the 4th?

DD will hit the shot ..with an +1...and make that for the 1 point win....

....while somewhere raptor fans chant the line from The Exorcist..The power of Christ compels you...and the pain of the arujo’s...the joey graham’s, the Alonzo mourning not coming shit will be gone

[KeonClark]

It takes time for teams to find a raison d’etre.....The Raps have found it with the We the North ..
It fits

Inevitably the barbarians from the north storm the walls and win.....

Keep the campfires lit.....The North is Coming....and they will hit that shot.

Question is who will hit that shot? Demar derozan? OG Anunoby? Or 2055 first round pick lebron james the 4th?

[Demographic Shift]

My favorite line:

Right before they showed The Miss, I leaned over to my friend and said, “Maybe he’ll hit it this time.” This is the definition of Vinsanity: watching the same highlight over and over again and expecting a different result.

It takes time for teams to find a raison d’etre.....The Raps have found it with the We the North ..
It fits

Inevitably the barbarians from the north storm the walls and win.....

Keep the campfires lit.....The North is Coming....and they will hit that shot.

[KeonClark]

Great find and a Good read..

My favorite line:

Right before they showed The Miss, I leaned over to my friend and said, “Maybe he’ll hit it this time.” This is the definition of Vinsanity: watching the same highlight over and over again and expecting a different result.

[Demographic Shift]

I felt this article deserves it's own thread. A professional writer on a major us site who is also a fan of the team, very well done. He touches on Vince, Paul Pierce, the current team, the past teams, with lots of biting humor and introspective opinion. I find he's really not wrong with anything said and has a good perspective. Give it a read. I posted a couple excerpts for the lazy among you.




https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/1...treadmill-team

Great find and a Good read..

[Scraptor]

I very much agree.

Overall, the NBA in Toronto (and by extension Canada) has been a resounding success. Toronto is a great sports city, but that's ignored to create narratives where the Raptors are either on the precipe of a Grizzlies-like fate, or where the Raptors fan base is in some kind of pre-championship Cleveland tortured-by-all-the-losing state. Neither of these things are true.

Toronto supports franchises really well, basketball has grown exponentially in Canada (#1 source for non-US players on opening night), and while the Raptors have had more down years than up, as you say Slaw that's hardly unusual in a league with as little parity as the NBA.

I'm not sure either of those narratives apply to this article, which explicitly states we are not on a Grizzlies-like path in the closing paragraph.

I thought the premise of the article was more about whether we're satisfied being on the treadmill.

On a side note, here is how Blake Griffin views his team's success after five consecutive 50-win seasons.

[S.R.]

I think where this article falls down is with one of its underlying premises: that there is something unique about Toronto's place in the league. There really isn't. Teams are bad. Then they are good. Then they are bad again. Some win rings. Most don't. The "Toronto as hinterland of the NBA" may have been a talking point 20 years ago but it's not all that relevant, let alone material, anymore.

I very much agree.

Overall, the NBA in Toronto (and by extension Canada) has been a resounding success. Toronto is a great sports city, but that's ignored to create narratives where the Raptors are either on the precipe of a Grizzlies-like fate, or where the Raptors fan base is in some kind of pre-championship Cleveland tortured-by-all-the-losing state. Neither of these things are true.

Toronto supports franchises really well, basketball has grown exponentially in Canada (#1 source for non-US players on opening night), and while the Raptors have had more down years than up, as you say Slaw that's hardly unusual in a league with as little parity as the NBA.

[Mess]

I thought he does approach our current state from both a positive and negative angle?

Yeah I guess...his next line after "And a season of respectably-competitive-playoff-qualifying, “maybe if LeBron comes down with the flu we could sneak into the Finals” Raptors doesn’t sound so bad." is "Except to those for whom it does."

So like I did say, he hits both sides but the balance is off to me.

[slaw]

I suppose he sort of hits on the duality of Raptor fans (though it's not that different from any other fan base really). But he could have put their timeline into better context/perspective. I mean, Steve Francis was drafted 18 yrs ago, Carter's miss was 17 yrs ago, Bosh only being a 2-time 1st round loser that left was 7 years ago

Yeah, this article seemed a little dated: feels like it was written by a guy in his late 30s/early 40s. Look, if you are 20 years old now, Carter's miss happened when you were 4. A lot of the teenage Raps fans never even saw VC in a Raps uniform and none of them even know who Steven Francis is (without looking him up on the internets). Even for me, and I was there in Philly that fateful day covered in beer and ketchup sitting directly behind VC as he raised up....., only have distant memories of the VC era. And I'd be willing to bet that there's a good chunk of current Raps fans who never watched the Bosh teams.

Each organization has various iterations of its team and it's those iterations that have to be looked at - you can't judge the Ujiri front office by what happened in 10 years ago. The current iteration (what I'll call the Lowry/Derozan era) is pretty damn good. They aren't great. They aren't champions. But they are pretty damn good. In context, I believe they have more wins than any EC team in the last 4 seasons. That's impressive.

I think where this article falls down is with one of its underlying premises: that there is something unique about Toronto's place in the league. There really isn't. Teams are bad. Then they are good. Then they are bad again. Some win rings. Most don't. The "Toronto as hinterland of the NBA" may have been a talking point 20 years ago but it's not all that relevant, let alone material, anymore.

[KeonClark]

I can and definitely will ignore the Leafs, thanks.

I suppose he sort of hits on the duality of Raptor fans (though it's not that different from any other fan base really). But he could have put their timeline into better context/perspective. I mean, Steve Francis was drafted 18 yrs ago, Carter's miss was 17 yrs ago, Bosh only being a 2-time 1st round loser that left was 7 years ago.

He says fans are currently "stuck in a vicious cycle of seasons" but comparing this treadmill bullshit to actual viscous seasons where only the delusion of hope for a brighter future got you by, - is nonsense. Same goes for him being frustrated "to see a team that, as currently constructed, isn’t going to win a title bump up against the luxury tax". I guess I just don't agree with a fan who would prefer to cheer for a team that, if neither way has a real shot at the title, would lose 50 games rather than win 50 games. And one who would want that a 50 win team to actively and consciously sabotage itself for a low probability of increased success after some indeterminate period of time.


"Brief History of the Toronto Raptors Coming Up Short" is overwhelmed by the "Lengthy History of the Toronto Raptors Coming Nowhere Close".

I thought he does approach our current state from both a positive and negative angle?

So for those of us who lived through and did our best to cheer for all kinds of bad (and worse) Raptors squads over the years, from the “we can’t score” Kevin O’Neill Raptors to the “wow, Mike James is averaging 20 points per game” Raptors to the “Chris Bosh is going to punch Andrea Bargnani” Raptors to thedancing-Hedo Raptors, the “We the North” era has been pretty great. And a season of respectably-competitive-playoff-qualifying, “maybe if LeBron comes down with the flu we could sneak into the Finals” Raptors doesn’t sound so bad.

[Mess]

I think they gave him the column because it wasn't meant to be a straight basketball personnel/strategy discussion, but also largely a perspective on the view from inside canada, inside toronto, inside the ACC. We are a very passionate but tortured group, and the issue of losing a bit of our revelancy to the maple leafs right now also can't be ignored.

I can and definitely will ignore the Leafs, thanks.

I suppose he sort of hits on the duality of Raptor fans (though it's not that different from any other fan base really). But he could have put their timeline into better context/perspective. I mean, Steve Francis was drafted 18 yrs ago, Carter's miss was 17 yrs ago, Bosh only being a 2-time 1st round loser that left was 7 years ago.

He says fans are currently "stuck in a vicious cycle of seasons" but comparing this treadmill bullshit to actual viscous seasons where only the delusion of hope for a brighter future got you by, - is nonsense. Same goes for him being frustrated "to see a team that, as currently constructed, isn’t going to win a title bump up against the luxury tax". I guess I just don't agree with a fan who would prefer to cheer for a team that, if neither way has a real shot at the title, would lose 50 games rather than win 50 games. And one who would want that a 50 win team to actively and consciously sabotage itself for a low probability of increased success after some indeterminate period of time.


"Brief History of the Toronto Raptors Coming Up Short" is overwhelmed by the "Lengthy History of the Toronto Raptors Coming Nowhere Close".

[JimiCliff]

I think they gave him the column because it wasn't meant to be a straight basketball personnel/strategy discussion, but also largely a perspective on the view from inside canada, inside toronto, inside the ACC. We are a very passionate but tortured group, and the issue of losing a bit of our revelancy to the maple leafs right now also can't be ignored.

I suppose. Personally, I'm not a big fan of most of the Ringer's written content. It's generally pretty superficial, and this article certainly fits that bill. The 'little guys from the North-of-the-Border with an inferiority complex' angle is beyond tired. I can't tell you how many times I've read it before. It is, hands down, the most obvious and vapid take on the franchise one can make.

And it's a thesis that only holds water if you omit mentioning all of the positives of the Ujiri era. You can make the case that Masai's among the very best executives in all of professional sports, let alone the NBA. And he seems to be committed to the city for the long haul. We're incredibly lucky we have him. Write about THAT.

[KeonClark]

There's some huge oversights here. Not nearly enough respect/time is given to what Ujiri's accomplished while he's been here. And, a real basketball writer (not a film critic who, for some reason, was given a basketball column) might point out that while sure, you could call us treadmill, we're also sneakily moving into 'amassing-assets-that-could-be-flipped-for-superstar' territory, a la Houston.

I think they gave him the column because it wasn't meant to be a straight basketball personnel/strategy discussion, but also largely a perspective on the view from inside canada, inside toronto, inside the ACC. We are a very passionate but tortured group, and the issue of losing a bit of our revelancy to the maple leafs right now also can't be ignored.