Would you trade...

[johng15]

Cory jo
Demarre Carroll
Late first

For
Cj miles
14 million cap space

Still can't believe masai pulled this off


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[Puffer]

Look on the dictionary under the word "patience" and you know whose smiling face you will find.

[DanH]

Cory jo
Demarre Carroll
Late first

For
Cj miles
14 million cap space

Still can't believe masai pulled this off


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Well, to be fair, it's a late 1st and a late 2nd.

And "cap space" is not well defined in terms of value once you approach the tax.

But yes, I would trade Carroll, CoJo and two picks for Miles, more minutes for Powell and more minutes for Wright.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

We didn't get 14M in cap space from that trade.

And the trade was CoJo, Carroll, 1st and 2nd for Miles.

[Scraptor]

I am not sure if I'm going crazy but the adulation for CJ Miles is kind of hilarious. It reminds me of when BC traded Turkoglu for Barbosa, only we didn't have to pay a first and a second to get rid of Turkoglu.

[golden]

If you check the game threads last year, there were a lot of times when posters would have paid to have Carroll and CoJo taken off our hands, i.e., addition by subtraction. They were maddeningly inconsistent and when they were bad, they were really bad. To be fair, both those guys came from ball movement systems and maybe never really adjusted to the KL/DD centric offense and having to create off the dribble themselves. Carroll's actually doing quite well with the Nets this year ..... so far.

[DanH]

I am not sure if I'm going crazy but the adulation for CJ Miles is kind of hilarious. It reminds me of when BC traded Turkoglu for Barbosa, only we didn't have to pay a first and a second to get rid of Turkoglu.

Miles is kind of a bonus with respect to Carroll. Getting Carroll off the team is great all by itself. I see the two transactions as separate (although they are admittedly tied together due to the hard cap rules). Carroll was a straight salary dump, to free up minutes for Powell in the starting lineup. CoJo for Miles is a fair value trade, and a good one considering we had Wright begging to be used more fully and less swingman depth having removed Carroll from the roster.

[planetmars]

Personally not a fan of the trade still. The new system is encouraging and I think Carroll might have done well in it (he's doing well in Brooklyn). Powell could have still been the starter. Carroll might have been okay off the bench in the role CJ has now. Possibly not as effective, but the cost of two draft picks in my opinion is too high.

A draft pick is highly valued currency.. especially with most teams all capped out (or even hitting luxury tax). Raptors won't be able to use the pick at all this year (their 2019 is off limits, since they don't have a 2018 pick.. trading the 2020+ pick is dangerous since that's when the Raps might rebuild).

I don't mind trading CoJo for cap space.. really love what Delon's been doing. And I was pretty vocal about trading CoJo last year. The issue is that Masai got nothing but cap space. He couldn't even scrounge up a 2nd round pick. I guess it shows you the value of a draft pick (and again why I wasn't a fan of the Carroll trade). Even Vasquez got us a couple of draft picks and CoJo is better.

Of course it comes down to taxes more than anything else. Maybe this team isn't worth paying taxes for. Maybe Masai felt that he'd be a repeater if he paid tax this year. But on the other hand it feels like the organization just wanted to be cheap. And that part rubs me the wrong way.

I just hope the Raps become a top 4/5 team in the league like they were two years ago so the picks are worse than they could have been. I hope the draft class is weak this year. I hope CJ proves to be very valuable, especially in the playoffs. I hope the Raps do decide to pay tax next year instead of dumping guys like JV or CJ for nothing. And I hope Delon continues to kick ass through out the year.

[DanH]

Frankly, the Raptors can't afford the 1st round draft pick salary this coming summer. They will likely be looking for minimum signings to minimize the tax bill (not eliminate it - if they keep the team together, which I hope they do, they will be about 10M into the tax). Every dollar counts in that scenario.

[DanH]

Personally not a fan of the trade still. The new system is encouraging and I think Carroll might have done well in it (he's doing well in Brooklyn). Powell could have still been the starter. Carroll might have been okay off the bench in the role CJ has now. Possibly not as effective, but the cost of two draft picks in my opinion is too high.

A draft pick is highly valued currency.. especially with most teams all capped out (or even hitting luxury tax). Raptors won't be able to use the pick at all this year (their 2019 is off limits, since they don't have a 2018 pick.. trading the 2020+ pick is dangerous since that's when the Raps might rebuild).

I don't mind trading CoJo for cap space.. really love what Delon's been doing. And I was pretty vocal about trading CoJo last year. The issue is that Masai got nothing but cap space. He couldn't even scrounge up a 2nd round pick. I guess it shows you the value of a draft pick (and again why I wasn't a fan of the Carroll trade). Even Vasquez got us a couple of draft picks and CoJo is better.

Of course it comes down to taxes more than anything else. Maybe this team isn't worth paying taxes for. Maybe Masai felt that he'd be a repeater if he paid tax this year. But on the other hand it feels like the organization just wanted to be cheap. And that part rubs me the wrong way.

I just hope the Raps become a top 4/5 team in the league like they were two years ago so the picks are worse than they could have been. I hope the draft class is weak this year. I hope CJ proves to be very valuable, especially in the playoffs. I hope the Raps do decide to pay tax next year instead of dumping guys like JV or CJ for nothing. And I hope Delon continues to kick ass through out the year.

The trade was CoJo for CJ Miles. It just got complicated by Miles wanting a PO, so they used the MLE on him (which is irrelevant since they weren't going to trade for him AND use the MLE). If the Raptors didn't trade CoJo they couldn't sign Miles (they were too close to the hard cap). The technical structure of the deal was CoJo for nothing but it's a deal that never happens except to trade for/sign Miles. It's silly to look at it in any context other than CoJo for Miles.

And thinking Carroll would have been OK coming off the bench is hilarious. Maybe he'd have performed OK (I doubt it), but a) do you think there is any universe in which Casey brings him off the bench and b) I really don't think Carroll would have liked being benched very much. Heck, even if that all works great, you're still screwed next summer when now you are facing a giant tax bill instead of the reasonable one they face now, and you have to dump just as many assets to move Carroll off the books at that point, no matter how much he's improved his value (which again I doubt), because every team in the league sees you are screwed re: taxes.

[Puffer]

...every team in the league sees you are screwed re: taxes.

Thanks for explaining it so clearly Dan.

I don't mind the posters claiming "MLSE is just cheap," without giving any thought to it being a business whose purpose is to make money. But when the same posters, after laughing at teams who are forced to give up assets because their hands are tied by having no financial flexibility, want Masai to jam the Raptors into the same corner, I have to wonder.

[iblastoff]

i somehow ended up with demarre carroll on my fantasy roster and hes TEARING IT UP in brooklyn so far!

[Nilanka]

i somehow ended up with demarre carroll on my fantasy roster and hes TEARING IT UP in brooklyn so far!

Lol, I picked him with my last pick. Just waiting until his knee(s) explode, though....

[TrueTorontoFan]

Frankly, the Raptors can't afford the 1st round draft pick salary this coming summer. They will likely be looking for minimum signings to minimize the tax bill (not eliminate it - if they keep the team together, which I hope they do, they will be about 10M into the tax). Every dollar counts in that scenario.

This is exactly what I was thinking when it happens. We also have a lot of youth... we can go without a draft pick for a year. Especially with OG looking how he has been looking I think we are good for next year.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lol, I picked him with my last pick. Just waiting until his knee(s) explode, though....

I picked him on one of the Raptor republic leagues as well!