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Game #16: Washington Wizards 91 - Toronto Raptors 100

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  • Scraptor
    replied
    What worries me about JV-Ibaka is they are killing their already tepid trade value. Need some good games out of them if we are going to have any flexibility on the trade front.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I was at the game, but missed the entire 1st half thanks to the Santa Clause parade. Took me an hour to get from Spadina to the ACC. Next time, I'll remember people's love of celebrating Christmas in November.
    Gutsy call to drive into the ACC. I usually take the train if I'm heading out that way.

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  • DanH
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Seems to be a common theme here...
    I framed it that way because a) that's the argument being made, that that frontcourt pairing doesn't work, and b) we've seen substitutions specifically within the big man usage over the past few years where JV-Pat for example was amazing, and Biyombo-Scola was garbage. The common theme shows JV there because he's the starting C and PF has mostly been a revolving door pu-pu platter. I could have put Lowry or DD in the same place and that would be a common theme, but it just wasn't the topic at hand, and it would be just as informative (read: not very) as to the issue.

    That said, JV-Ibaka should be way better than a break even pairing. The fact that they are not this late into the season is definitely concerning. They could certainly turn it around with some good games against the softer schedule coming up, and if they do, great. But if they don't, we're getting to the point where we've seen enough of that pairing and something else might need to be tried.

    In previous years, the obvious choice was to fix the starting PF. This year the choice is not so obvious, even if JV being removed is the most likely path. JV hasn't gotten very many minutes away from Ibaka (46 MP), and has done moderately well in them (+5.1 net rating, lower but still poor DRTG). While Ibaka has played more away from JV (175 MP) but has had almost identical success to JV when they are apart (+5.6 net rating, with a far better DRTG but with the ORTG dropping significantly too). Both samples are flawed, with teammate and matchup context involved. And whether to start BeBe/Poeltl, both of whom have struggled against better opposition, or Siakam, who has been great but would force Ibaka into the starting C role and matchups he's shown no interest or capability for...

    The good news is the team has far more flexibility to manage any starting variation due to OG and Siakam both playing so well at the 4. So even with all the pitfalls of the various choices, it's worth a shot come, say, December 8th. Try the option we think is best for ~20 games (unless it's a dramatic failure far beyond what we've seen with Ibaka-JV) and see where the team sits come the half way mark. That leaves plenty of season to pick a rotation and get into a groove heading into the playoffs. And it's not like there are any likely combinations that will kill the team's chances of winning games in the meantime - even the much-bemoaned JV-Ibaka pairing is essentially a league average one.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    I have a feeling all those missed shots were because it was a 3:30 game. Like I said earlier, I hate afternoon games.

    JV sucks against Washington. Gortat is so good in the PnR and JV just does not know what to do. Glad he got benched in that second half. Wish that happened the first time around.

    Yet JV is so good against a lot of other teams.. like against New Orleans for example. Without him, we'd probably lose both those games.

    DD was insanely good.. yet he only got 1 free throw (and it was a tech). But then I figured it out real quick. Ed Malloy was reffing. Worst ref in the NBA.

    We needed Siakam's energy and got a tonne of it. That block on Scott (I think) was awesome.

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  • G__Deane
    replied
    jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
    I've looked at the schedule and if we play like this we could legitimately get a 20 game winning streak going. No tough competition besides in Memphis.
    Not a chance in the NBA imo
    Over 20 games, virtually every team is going to lose a few to lower half teams. Winning 16 or 17 out of 20 even to lower ranking teams is still more than solid.
    Raps are a good team that still has to compete every single games. They are no exception.

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  • Rudy Bargnani
    replied
    THe fact that OG and Siakam are both playing well individually and together in a 2 man lineup is going to put further pressure on the Ibaka-JV pairing.

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  • Nilanka
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    You know what's crazy to me? JV and Ibaka have looked about as bad as I think they can for the early part of the season and have somehow posted only a -1 net rating in 200+ minutes. It's been a disappointing start for them for sure, even with early season struggles from Lowry and Powell, and injuries.

    I think it would be worth trying a different look fairly soon (in say another couple of weeks once the schedule has balanced out and we have a sample of average opponents, plus hitting that quarter mark for the season), but I'm starting to doubt Casey will do that. He stuck to pairings of JV-Scola and JV-Siakam the past two seasons for most of the year in spite of significantly worse performances than the -1 JV-Ibaka have been posting against a tough schedule.
    Seems to be a common theme here...

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  • Shaolin Fantastic
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    You know what's crazy to me? JV and Ibaka have looked about as bad as I think they can for the early part of the season and have somehow posted only a -1 net rating in 200+ minutes. It's been a disappointing start for them for sure, even with early season struggles from Lowry and Powell, and injuries.

    I think it would be worth trying a different look fairly soon (in say another couple of weeks once the schedule has balanced out and we have a sample of average opponents, plus hitting that quarter mark for the season), but I'm starting to doubt Casey will do that. He stuck to pairings of JV-Scola and JV-Siakam the past two seasons for most of the year in spite of significantly worse performances than the -1 JV-Ibaka have been posting against a tough schedule.
    Convinced you finally! Yay

    Leave a comment:


  • JimiCliff
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    I like wins. This one felt boring though. Like it was predetermined. Which it totally wasn't
    Finding yourself playing games that are seemingly predetermined wins is a fantastic place for a franchise be.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacobdr4
    replied
    I've looked at the schedule and if we play like this we could legitimately get a 20 game winning streak going. No tough competition besides in Memphis.

    Leave a comment:


  • G__Deane
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    I like wins. This one felt boring though. Like it was predetermined.
    I didn't feel that way at all. Especially with the players we were missing and Wall being out again. Easily a game we could have lost to them as well and to a team very near us in the standings with potential playoff implications. And before another mini road trip too. I guess I had more of the big picture in mind but I though it was a good game

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  • DanH
    replied
    You know what's crazy to me? JV and Ibaka have looked about as bad as I think they can for the early part of the season and have somehow posted only a -1 net rating in 200+ minutes. It's been a disappointing start for them for sure, even with early season struggles from Lowry and Powell, and injuries.

    I think it would be worth trying a different look fairly soon (in say another couple of weeks once the schedule has balanced out and we have a sample of average opponents, plus hitting that quarter mark for the season), but I'm starting to doubt Casey will do that. He stuck to pairings of JV-Scola and JV-Siakam the past two seasons for most of the year in spite of significantly worse performances than the -1 JV-Ibaka have been posting against a tough schedule.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    I was at the game, but missed the entire 1st half thanks to the Santa Clause parade. Took me an hour to get from Spadina to the ACC. Next time, I'll remember people's love of celebrating Christmas in November.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    I like wins. This one felt boring though. Like it was predetermined. Which it totally wasn't, there were a bunch of great efforts and adjustments in this one that ensured the victory. It just felt like a game long slog to a 10 point win, even during that ugly 3rd.

    It's a shame the starters came out with no energy in the third, because they looked good in the first half, which was a pleasant surprise after they got shellacked by WAS the last time out. Baby steps, I guess. Thankfully Casey didn't repeat last game's mistake bringing JV-Ibaka back in in the 4th after they sputtered in the 3rd - when those two are energetic and on their game everything goes well, but if one or the other is lethargic they are done. Too often that has been Ibaka, but last night in the 3rd it was JV, weak at the rim on both ends and awful in PnR defence. Earned his spectator's seat last night.

    Ibaka was nice at C this game, he definitely brought more effort than is usual for him (even at C), and on a night where JV was useless late and Poeltl and BeBe were getting their lunches stolen by Gortat, we needed him there. Fought well, grabbed key rebounds - I'll take it. Thankfully Gortat's not a scorer inside, but Ibaka still did very well on the boards against him.

    OG I thought was the right guy for the Beal matchup, but he was dying on screens tonight no matter who was setting the screen or defending the screener, and the move to get Lowry on Beal worked out nicely. OG at least bought Lowry a half where he didn't have to chase Beal around. Games like this we miss Powell for an extra option there.

    Meanwhile, DD continues his great all-around play of late, Lowry keeps looking good, and Pascal had a heck of a night (his on-ball defence continues to be awesome). Using Pascal as an on-ball guy has been really smart, he still looks a little lost on help defence sometimes but his length and quickness really mess with guys handling the ball. Between him, OG and Powell we can make our perimeter defence a nightmare for opposing teams.

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  • Nilanka
    replied
    tDotted wrote: View Post
    Yeah frontcourt should be Ibaka and Siakam/Poeltl. JV and Ibaka are too slow together
    This is becoming more apparent with each game.

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