Game 17: Toronto Raptors 100 - New York Knicks 108

[planetmars]

JV is only playing less than 21 minutes a game.. lowest in his career. He's either starting or not playing. I'd prefer it that way since most of the bruising bigs start in the NBA too.

Ibaka at the 5 leaves only Siakam at PF. When Bebe leaves in the off season our center depth also shrinks.

We don't have assets to move within season either.

Ultimately this is what we get.. and I like starting JV and giving him only 20 minutes a game (unless its against Drummond.. he can play him all game long).

[planetmars]

Not sure why we're spending so much time talking about our big rotation.

The loss last night was because our guards sucked. Lowry and DD couldn't score or make a play in the 3rd, and neither really helped on defense. Wish those two got benched instead of JV, OG and Ibaka.

This loss is on our all-stars. But it's just one loss and they've helped us win more times than I can count. So it's no biggie. Just hope they don't do what they did yesterday in the playoffs again.

[DanH]

Ibaka and Poeltl have a net rating of +3.9 this season.. but have only played 38 minutes together.

And have played some of those minutes in bench looks with one or fewer of DD/KL playing. When they've played against stiffer competition ("starting" minutes, when both DD+KL are playing), they've posted a -18.1 net rating, with a 115 DRTG, in 29 minutes (ie the vast majority of that 38 minute sample). So essentially they've been amazing for 9 minutes against some bench unit, but have gotten smacked around for most of their playing time against real competition.

[LJ2]

Ibaka seems like he has that personality, but he also seems like his head is somewhere else half the time like a disenchanted joe blow working a 9 to 5.

Also admittedly it's harder to be that guy when you yourself were the worst player in the game

He was more of a vocal leader in OKC, but seems to defer to DD and KL here in Toronto. Maybe he's just trying to play through whatever knee issues he's been in and out of the line up with, but his D hasn't been good and agree it's difficult to call guys out when you can't lead by example.

[LJ2]

Not sure why we're spending so much time talking about our big rotation.

The loss last night was because our guards sucked. Lowry and DD couldn't score or make a play in the 3rd, and neither really helped on defense. Wish those two got benched instead of JV, OG and Ibaka.

This loss is on our all-stars. But it's just one loss and they've helped us win more times than I can count. So it's no biggie. Just hope they don't do what they did yesterday in the playoffs again.

Agree, yesterday's loss was due to a lack of team leadership.

[MixxAOR]

Starting line up
C: JV
PF: Pascal Siakam
SF: OG
SG: Derozan
PG: Lowry

Bench line up

C: Poeltl/Bebe
PF: Ibaka
SF: Miles
SG: Powell
PG: FVV/Delon Wright

[DanH]

Starting line up
C: JV
PF: Pascal Siakam
SF: OG
SG: Derozan
PG: Lowry

Bench line up

C: Poeltl/Bebe
PF: Ibaka
SF: Miles
SG: Powell
PG: FVV/Delon Wright

Just as viable as the JV bench idea. But I'd bench JV if we bench anyone. I think JV would go along with it. I'm not so optimistic about any of our other starters (SF revolving door aside).

[3inthekeon]

We lose one November regular season game and the board is freaking out. GS, Bos and SA also lost last night. Shit happens. We were only 4 pt favourites with a 1 in 3 chance of losing. Ibaka ( and others) couldn't hit a shot when it mattered, and Hardaway had the best game of his career. It sucked that the team collapsed when the Knicks came out on fire in the 3rd, but it's not like this has been a constant issue.

I'm outta here, continue overreacting.

[MixxAOR]

We lose one November regular season game and the board is freaking out. GS, Bos and SA also lost last night. Shit happens. We were only 4 pt favourites with a 1 in 3 chance of losing. Ibaka ( and others) couldn't hit a shot when it mattered, and Hardaway had the best game of his career. It sucked that the team collapsed when the Knicks came out on fire in the 3rd, but it's not like this has been a constant issue.

I'm outta here, continue overreacting.

[planetmars]

Would take some giant balls from Casey to bench Ibaka.. he never came off the bench for Orlando either. I don't see it happening.

[MixxAOR]

Would take some giant balls from Casey to bench Ibaka.. he never came off the bench for Orlando either. I don't see it happening.

I would respect Casey forever if he did it

[jimmie]

Agree, yesterday's loss was due to a lack of team leadership.

This is my concern and it’s not tied to one bad game. I said it a couple of weeks ago when Lowry was struggling, but I think it’s still true now. I get the impression he’s never been sold on the new offense, and given his personality, it looks like when things go sideways, he checks out or goes back to hero ball. He’s never been an ideal leader; great when things are peachy but bad when times are tough.

It’s true that the starting backcourt sucked on both ends last night, but JV and Ibaka share the blame. The bigs are supposed to step up and help on perimeter picks, but Hardaway and others had wide open looks all night. That simply can’t happen. JV is slow, but he has to at least try to get out there. Ibaka has been better, but not by much. Same thing happened when OG got hung out to dry against Beal.

The vets on this team right now don’t like they have half the heart of the bench. That’s a major problem long term if it doesn’t change.

[white men can't jump]

This is my concern and it’s not tied to one bad game. I said it a couple of weeks ago when Lowry was struggling, but I think it’s still true now. I get the impression he’s never been sold on the new offense, and given his personality, it looks like when things go sideways, he checks out or goes back to hero ball. He’s never been an ideal leader; great when things are peachy but bad when times are tough.

It’s true that the starting backcourt sucked on both ends last night, but JV and Ibaka share the blame. The bigs are supposed to step up and help on perimeter picks, but Hardaway and others had wide open looks all night. That simply can’t happen. JV is slow, but he has to at least try to get out there. Ibaka has been better, but not by much. Same thing happened when OG got hung out to dry against Beal.

The vets on this team right now don’t like they have half the heart of the bench. That’s a major problem long term if it doesn’t change.

It was a problem when we switched to different bigs and this has been a consistent issue that everyone just blames JV for indiscriminately: if our bigs do hedge/trap on the perimeter player, our secondary rotations are crap a huge chunk of the time. This leads to easy passes to the roll man, and indecision from the bigs who are reluctant to be aggressive and give up the passing lane. There's just no secondary help and that even extends to the glass a lot.

And it can even be a problem in transition. Last night Kanter had a transition dunk where JV was too far behind to make a difference, but we had 4 defenders back in transition and nobody guarded the paint. NY didn't even have numbers. Literally just no one stepped in.

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[KeonClark]

Would take some giant balls from Casey to bench Ibaka.. he never came off the bench for Orlando either. I don't see it happening.

By next year, or especially by year 3 of his deal, I see it being a natural progression if siakam keeps improving at this completely unexpected rate. He started the year as a dnp and nobody cared. Leo rautins last night compared him to dennis Rodman, who was a top 15 player in the league at one point.

We should all be excited. This absolute 3 year window? Well in 4 years, we'll have 29 year old Delon Wright, 28 year old norman powell, 31 year old demar derozan, 24 year old og Anunoby, 27 year old pascal siakam and 26 year old jakob Poeltl. That's starting to look like it could be a very good core

[MixxAOR]

By next year, or especially by year 3 of his deal, I see it being a natural progression if siakam keeps improving at this completely unexpected rate. He started the year as a dnp and nobody cared. Leo rautins last night compared him to dennis Rodman, who was a top 15 player in the league at one point.

We should all be excited. This absolute 3 year window? Well in 4 years, we'll have 29 year old Delon Wright, 28 year old norman powell, 31 year old demar derozan, 24 year old og Anunoby, 27 year old pascal siakam and 26 year old jakob Poeltl. That's starting to look like it could be a very good core

I'll be old