Game #18: Toronto Raptors 104 - Indiana Pacers 107

[Demographic Shift]

I ask this again, if the Raps play the Sixers in the playoffs, who'd be the favourite?

Raps...

[Demographic Shift]

Just like that, Cavs leapfrogs the Raptors in the Standings.

It’s no cakewook that the bottom teams are easy fodder in the first round.

Raptors are the Raptors, C.J. Miles was somewhat of a bling in the off-season but the same shit ails this team.

What ails this team is how to best utilize 4 centres...no answers right now...but just like you don’t need 4 hammers in your toolbox..you don’t need 4 C’s...someone has to be moved to Bruno’s seat....

I understand this isn’t your preferred solution...but it’s the most viable one in an untenable 11 man rotation.

[Jess]

Injuries always happen brother... you should still win without your backup PG or bench player.

Wright or Miles aren't really going to make the difference night in and out.

Ya I understand that they don't really make or break the team, but anytime there's someone missing in the rotation it's bound to cause disruption. I'm just trying to say that some people are overreacting. I think they played like garbage last night but it's not the end of the world to lose a couple games in November.
Do I think this is a championship team built the way it is? No and I don't think anyone expected that going into this season. i just think we need to take them for what they are, a good team but still a piece away from being a great team.

[The Great One]

What ails this team is how to best utilize 4 centres...no answers right now...but just like you don’t need 4 hammers in your toolbox..you don’t need 4 C’s...someone has to be moved to Bruno’s seat....

I understand this isn’t your preferred solution...but it’s the most viable one in an untenable 11 man rotation.

They need to tighten up the rotation. The 12 men rotation is fuckin dumb. There's no reason to play Brown. There's no reason to keep playing 3 centers.

Defensively, i know JV is bad defender. And he's getting a lot of shit right now. But their perimeter players(DeRozan and Lowry) are just as bad defensively as JV.

[white men can't jump]

raps are back to middle of the pack...average. Not a contender at all. Masai missed the boat and has lost touch with what works in the NBA. Time for new front office blood. New Coach, and possible new Team Leaders.

Front office has been riding the core they inherited. Masai's shown enough in terms of identifying talent and dealmaking that he should be given the chance for one big shakeup. He has to be willing to take that chance though. We are exactly the kind of team we all thought he didn't want us to be when he talked about building a contender. The famous "making the playoffs is easy" line. Well that's all we're doing, Masai.

I do think, regardless of record, that if we see the same typical Raps season it's about time to blow this thing up completely. Can't keep rolling with the Casey-DeMar-Lowry dynamic and expect anymore growth. They reached their ceiling with this coach after the first playoff season against the Nets, confirmed after the collapse to the Wiz the next season. And they missed their chance to change coaches at that time to see if someone else could further elevate the team. It seems doubtful that just a coaching change could have a significant impact at this point. So may as well blow it all up.

Two things worry me...MLSE will not want to blow it up even if they should, as long as the team can keep getting them a round or two of playoff revenues. And if we do blow it up, do any of us really know if Masai would fire Casey? He can't be here when we're trying to develop a new core.

[tDotted]

Lorenzo Brown (?!?), VanVleet, Powell, Anunoby, JV open the 4th. This is definitely a lineup

— Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) November 25, 2017

If this isn't a fireable offence, it's definitely worth a stern warning.

It is a fireable offence for any other coach in the league, but Casey is never losing his job so....

[Scraptor]

Front office has been riding the core they inherited. Masai's shown enough in terms of identifying talent and dealmaking that he should be given the chance for one big shakeup. He has to be willing to take that chance though. We are exactly the kind of team we all thought he didn't want us to be when he talked about building a contender. The famous "making the playoffs is easy" line. Well that's all we're doing, Masai.

I do think, regardless of record, that if we see the same typical Raps season it's about time to blow this thing up completely. Can't keep rolling with the Casey-DeMar-Lowry dynamic and expect anymore growth. They reached their ceiling with this coach after the first playoff season against the Nets, confirmed after the collapse to the Wiz the next season. And they missed their chance to change coaches at that time to see if someone else could further elevate the team. It seems doubtful that just a coaching change could have a significant impact at this point. So may as well blow it all up.

Two things worry me...MLSE will not want to blow it up even if they should, as long as the team can keep getting them a round or two of playoff revenues. And if we do blow it up, do any of us really know if Masai would fire Casey? He can't be here when we're trying to develop a new core.

All valid points. But an even more sobering thought....

Could we even blow it up if we wanted to? Masai was lauded for these three year deals, but the annual rates are so inflated it will be incredibly difficult to find trade partners.

Kyle's the 6th-highest paid player in the NBA the next three seasons. DeMar's 10th/13th/12th, but I have to believe he'd be easier to deal given his age. Not sure who'd be willing to take Serge's $22 million next year when he's averaging career low rebounding and block rates.

Look how much trouble we're having dealing JV. Kyle's salary is almost double that. We have the fourth-highest salary in the NBA next year. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

I don't want to beat a dead horse but Masai has really got us in between a rock and a hard place, and it's going to take some Bargnani/Vasquez-level magic on a much grander scale to get us out of it.

[white men can't jump]

All valid points. But an even more sobering thought....

Could we even blow it up if we wanted to? Masai was lauded for these three year deals, but the annual rates are so inflated it will be incredibly difficult to find trade partners.

Kyle's the 6th-highest paid player in the NBA the next three seasons. DeMar's 10th/13th/12th, but I have to believe he'd be easier to deal given his age. Not sure who'd be willing to take Serge's $22 million next year when he's averaging career low rebounding and block rates.

Look how much trouble we're having dealing JV. Kyle's salary is almost double that. We have the fourth-highest salary in the NBA next year. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

I don't want to beat a dead horse but Masai has really got us in between a rock and a hard place, and it's going to take some Bargnani/Vasquez-level magic on a much grander scale to get us out of it.

Yeah I don't disagree at all. We're in a tight spot.

We don't really have the assets to improve anymore, and while I'm sure we could dump our core guys if we wanted to go for a full rebuild, I don't think we'd get great assets back that would really help accelerate the rebuild.

[KeonClark]

Lol log in today, and we're back to "BLOW IT UP!!". Look forward to the next couple game win streak when we're back finding that 3rd star for a finals run.

Everybody's an expert, but most of you have the patience of a 2 year old

[white men can't jump]

Lol log in today, and we're back to "BLOW IT UP!!". Look forward to the next couple game win streak when we're back finding that 3rd star for a finals run.

Everybody's an expert, but most of you have the patience of a 2 year old

We're into Casey's 7th year and changes have been minor to both style of play and roster. Don't know how that shows impatience if we're frustrated. A 2-year old would be 8 by now.

[inthepaint]

I ask this again, if the Raps play the Sixers in the playoffs, who'd be the favourite?

Raps. We'd drop one or two, no doubt, but in a series, we'd take them.

Everyone is ticked with the the past two losses, I get it, but I'm gonna go against the grain a little bit here:

a)The one vs the Knicks had one reason: complacency on the 3rd quarter. That's it. We were coming off high from 4 straight wins, thought the game was over at the half, and sagged back. That started a fire we didn't have time to put out. The other 3 quarters we won by 22. A good slap in the face L though, to show them you gotta stay awake for 48min. It sucked, but it's one of those good reminders that even when you're rolling you gotta stay awake. Nothing to overanalyze there.

b) The one yesterday was a 3-point loss after a blatant highway robbery from the refs in the last 2mins. 3 clear non calls, one of which likely a flagrant. Plus a random 29% 3P shooter (stevenson or whatever the fuck his name is) going off at clutch with 4-4 from deep.

We have kinks in the lineup sure, especially in the frontcourt, but I personally won't pin those two losses on that, or muse about the team's future because of two random losses in November. Gotta win tonight though.

[G__Deane]

All valid points. But an even more sobering thought....

Could we even blow it up if we wanted to? Masai was lauded for these three year deals, but the annual rates are so inflated it will be incredibly difficult to find trade partners.

Kyle's the 6th-highest paid player in the NBA the next three seasons. DeMar's 10th/13th/12th, but I have to believe he'd be easier to deal given his age. Not sure who'd be willing to take Serge's $22 million next year when he's averaging career low rebounding and block rates.

Look how much trouble we're having dealing JV. Kyle's salary is almost double that. We have the fourth-highest salary in the NBA next year. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

I don't want to beat a dead horse but Masai has really got us in between a rock and a hard place, and it's going to take some Bargnani/Vasquez-level magic on a much grander scale to get us out of it.

I love Lowry when he's playing like a bulldog, no one on this team wants to win more. But even I'll say he's ridiculously overpaid. And that's for this year, never mind the last year of the deal....Masai got skwewed

[G__Deane]

Lol log in today, and we're back to "BLOW IT UP!!". Look forward to the next couple game win streak when we're back finding that 3rd star for a finals run.

Everybody's an expert, but most of you have the patience of a 2 year old

It's true, it's the same after every loss. Or during every game if they get down 10 lol

[tDotted]

Have to agree with Superjudge that Masai might have badly miscalculated on this core. Especially on Ibaka being that mobile stretch PF, rim protecting unicorn that every team covets. The way Ibaka is playing, I'd rather have a shooter like Ross back, plus the 1st round pick and put Siakam in the starting lineup. If this continues, we're going to have to waste assets just to get rid of him, like Carroll.

Funny that the guys that would theoretically make for great "Casey players" end up looking like complete trash when land here. Hmm

[S.R.]

Lol log in today, and we're back to "BLOW IT UP!!". Look forward to the next couple game win streak when we're back finding that 3rd star for a finals run.

Everybody's an expert, but most of you have the patience of a 2 year old

Two games ago most of the forum (at least those who post while the team is wining) was very happy with being a top 5 team on every Power Ranking and having DeMar enter the MVP discussion. Two games later and we're having another Raptors fanbase existential crisis and trying to figure out how to tank as fast as possible.

Literally, that is what happened in this forum this week.