Game #18: Toronto Raptors 104 - Indiana Pacers 107

[The Great One]

Fuck the refs in this league. Bunch of INCOMPETENT idiots.

https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/st...307705856?s=17

[Scraptor]

Lol log in today, and we're back to "BLOW IT UP!!". Look forward to the next couple game win streak when we're back finding that 3rd star for a finals run.

Everybody's an expert, but most of you have the patience of a 2 year old

Two games ago most of the forum (at least those who post while the team is wining) was very happy with being a top 5 team on every Power Ranking and having DeMar enter the MVP discussion. Two games later and we're having another Raptors fanbase existential crisis and trying to figure out how to tank as fast as possible.

Literally, that is what happened in this forum this week.

white men can't jump's hypothetical was based on the phrase "if we see the same typical Raptors season".

If we lose in the first round, or get swept in the second, do you guys think we should proceed for two more years in the same fashion? There would be multiple opportunity costs, like not getting a return on our assets (like the Hawks), worsening our draft position, and not using the time to accelerate the development of the young pieces we do have.

If we're still using the "people who disagree with me are impatient" excuse, when exactly do we judge this core? Four more years? Kyle Lowry is turning 32. Patience is well and good but windows have an expiry date.

I'm still going to enjoy the good stretches and be excited when we play well, but my position has been pretty much the same for a few years now. We're a fun regular season team with a limited ceiling.

[inthepaint]

white men can't jump's hypothetical was based on the phrase "if we see the same typical Raptors season".

If we lose in the first round, or get swept in the second, do you guys think we should proceed for two more years in the same fashion? There would be multiple opportunity costs, like not getting a return on our assets (like the Hawks), worsening our draft position, and not using the time to accelerate the development of the young pieces we do have.

If we're still using the "people who disagree with me are impatient" excuse, when exactly do we judge this core? Four more years? Kyle Lowry is turning 32. Patience is well and good but windows have an expiry date.

I'm still going to enjoy the good stretches and be excited when we play well, but my position has been pretty much the same for a few years now. We're a fun regular season team with a limited ceiling.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, I just wonder why we're talking about this just after losing 2 random games in November (after a 4 game winning streak that included beating the western conference leader, on their court no less). That sounds like a perfectly reasonable discussion to have after the playoff run (depending on how it goes), but right now it just sounds like a knee-jerk reaction full of recency bias. Again, don't get me wrong the argument is not unreasonable, it's the timing I find bizarre.

It's an 82-game season. There will be winning streaks and losing streaks within it. Let them develop into the new offence, work out the kinks in the regular season, and then see how the playoff goes. Then we "judge the core". 4-5 years ago we weren't even sure we'd make the playoffs. Over the last 2 we won more playoff games then any other team other then GSW and Cavs, and yet we can't wait to talk about blowing it up after 2 random losses in November. I don't mean to be crass about your point, everyone can have their opinion, I just personally see it very differently.

[Scraptor]

Yeah, I get what you're saying, I just wonder why we're talking about this just after losing 2 random games in November (after a 4 game winning streak that included beating the western conference leader, on their court no less). That sounds like a perfectly reasonable discussion to have after the playoff run (depending on how it goes), but right now it just sounds like a knee-jerk reaction full of recency bias. Again, don't get me wrong the argument is not unreasonable, it's the timing I find bizarre.

It's an 82-game season. There will be winning streaks and losing streaks within it. Let them develop into the new offence, work out the kinks in the regular season, and then see how the playoff goes. Then we "judge the core". 4-5 years ago we weren't even sure we'd make the playoffs. Over the last 2 we won more playoff games then any other team other then GSW and Cavs, and yet we can't wait to talk about blowing it up after 2 random losses in November. I don't mean to be crass about your point, everyone can have their opinion, I just personally see it very differently.

The discussion surfaced because of superjudge, who does tend to appear at specific times, but if you'd been here longer you'd know that this is merely the latest iteration of a discussion we've had for years.

Note that this isn't a conversation that came up after losses to Golden State or Boston, but losses to two teams who were supposed to be much weaker than us in talent. It's not unreasonable to expect that after four years we'd be able to execute against these teams.

The last two years of playoffs is selection bias; over the last four seasons with this core we're ninth in playoff wins.

[DanH]

Wow, I'm glad I was out of town this weekend and didn't have time to comment after this game or watch the Hawks game until this evening. Indy game was awful, and showed that the issues aren't quite as simple as some have made out.