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Game #25: Toronto Raptors 91 - Los Angeles Clippers 96

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  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    There was only one person who was suggesting Kosta and Temple for JV. That was me. And nobody agreed to it. lol
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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    • Just curious....but while the broadcast crew reported that the Raptors arrived in LA at 7pm Sunday so should have had lots of rest.....is it possible that the players might have gone out for a little nightlife? This has become a problem (allegedly) with our local hockey team and their gross underperformance (Oilers) and I wonder if there is some explanation for why nearly the entire Raptors team looked like complete ass. There was an article I saw somewhere last year where certain cities (New Orleans, Miami)had remarkably good home records because opponents found a lot to do the night before games. Just curious

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      • Mitch P wrote: View Post
        Just curious....but while the broadcast crew reported that the Raptors arrived in LA at 7pm Sunday so should have had lots of rest.....is it possible that the players might have gone out for a little nightlife? This has become a problem (allegedly) with our local hockey team and their gross underperformance (Oilers) and I wonder if there is some explanation for why nearly the entire Raptors team looked like complete ass. There was an article I saw somewhere last year where certain cities (New Orleans, Miami)had remarkably good home records because opponents found a lot to do the night before games. Just curious
        Of course this is the case lol. Just watch how we play in Miami, too. Same shit with every team.

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        • Mitch P wrote: View Post
          Just curious....but while the broadcast crew reported that the Raptors arrived in LA at 7pm Sunday so should have had lots of rest.....is it possible that the players might have gone out for a little nightlife? This has become a problem (allegedly) with our local hockey team and their gross underperformance (Oilers) and I wonder if there is some explanation for why nearly the entire Raptors team looked like complete ass. There was an article I saw somewhere last year where certain cities (New Orleans, Miami)had remarkably good home records because opponents found a lot to do the night before games. Just curious
          Toronto has that reputation as well hence White Vegas. It's definately possible. I don't check instagram often. But they were probably chilling and enjoying LA.
          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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          • Don't know where the quote button is here. But just to reply to MACK11's last post - wow someone else finally notices how Lowry always chokes shooting freethrows in close games. It's been happening for YEARS. I knew he's going to miss one, i was scared he might miss both.
            Mamba Mentality

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            • S.R. wrote: View Post
              He's just a better player and more useful in 20 mpg than nearly all the proposed trade targets I've seen thrown out here, half of which are pipe dreams anyway. Ffs people were actually suggesting Kosta Koufos a couple of days ago. Do you know the last time he gave his team 20 and 10? March 2013. Fuck. Oh yeah, but that deal was going to include burying career journeyman Garret Temple somewhere behind DeRozan, OG, Miles, Powell, and Delon/FVV on the wing.

              If there isn't a deal that actually makes the Raptors better, they're better off with JV's 20 mpg. It's why he's still here. Management is doing the right thing.
              Completely agree. If there isn't a better option it makes no sense to trade him for the sake of trading him. He's still useful in certain match ups.

              Now what are your thoughts on benching him in the 4th, since he isn't really a part of the teams future plans? You never want to drop games, but do you really need to have JV out there in crunch time taking valuable experience from players that ARE actually part of the teams future?

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              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                He's not valuable though, it's one game.

                The advanced stats for years now grade him out as a player who doesn't impact the game positively while he's on the floor. It's not bias to say that, it's literally what the numbers say.

                And btw calling him another Kanter is not an insult, it is accurate. They have very, very similar numbers.
                You kind of contradict yourself, no? He certainly was valuable - in this one game. This is the danger of using advanced stats over 82 games and applying them to every single small situation. He should have been in.
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                  Lowry always seems to miss clutch free throws. It's been happening for years

                  Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
                  Yeah I don't know how reliable it is but last year. In 4th quarter in clutch situations (1 to 5 points difference) his FT% drops to 50-60%
                  Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    He's not valuable though, it's one game.

                    The advanced stats for years now grade him out as a player who doesn't impact the game positively while he's on the floor. It's not bias to say that, it's literally what the numbers say.

                    And btw calling him another Kanter is not an insult, it is accurate. They have very, very similar numbers.
                    I never said there was any insult. Just that it appears to bother you when JV has even one or a series of productive games

                    And you didn't call him another Kanter, you called him quote "a slightly worse version of Enes Kanter." You can't border on the edge of the truth to pretend you weren't slagging him again....

                    It's all good, Toronto fans have a long history of fixating on a target and hating on it daily until it's traded to perform well some place else lol
                    Last edited by G__Deane; Tue Dec 12, 2017, 04:01 PM.

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      The advanced stats say no such thing if you read into them a bit. Unless you are one to trust the catch-all impact numbers blindly.

                      And I think it's been explained pretty clearly that it's not just one game.
                      Actually they say a lot. And people who know more about advanced stats than you or I would say the same thing btw.

                      If you're looking at them in a way that favors JV, then yes they might suggest he's way better than Kanter which he is not.

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                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        You kind of contradict yourself, no? He certainly was valuable - in this one game. This is the danger of using advanced stats over 82 games and applying them to every single small situation. He should have been in.
                        Oh I'm not saying he shouldn't have been in for this game. He was dominating and should've played the clutch minutes. Moronic decision from Casey.

                        I just disagree with anyone who's trying to extrapolate from this that he should be closing more games. Casey has generally been right to not play him in the clutch, he was wrong last night because he was having an abnormally good game.

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                        • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                          I never said there was any insult. Just that it appears to bother you when JV has even one or a series of productive games

                          And you didn't call him another Kanter, you called him quote "a slightly worse version of Enes Kanter." You can't border on the edge of the truth to pretend you weren't slagging him again....

                          It's all good, Toronto fans have a long history of fixating on a target and hating on it daily until it's traded to perform well some place else lol
                          Who are these players that we've traded who have performed better somewhere else? Besides DeMarre Carroll (who was injured here and in an offense that didn't suit role players), which guy have we moved on from who played better after? Ross looks terrible, Lou Will is about the same. CoJo is not improved, 2Pat is much worse, Amir is hobbled.

                          Masai has generally made the right call on moving on from guys. And btw, I'm not someone who's been demanding for JV to be thrown away. My main thing was using him off the bench and then exploring trade options that I think would actually make us better. Not that Koufos/Temple nonsense that someone else posted.

                          He isn't that valuable though. He's a good offensive player who's really problematic on defense and can't stay in games. You also can't give him ridiculous usage like DeMar to mitigate his poor defense. I'm not biased against/for our players, I just like to acknowledge how good I think they actually are. If DeMar was only a 8/9 shots per game player I would not want him starting either because he would be coming nowhere near providing enough value on offense to warrant getting raped on the other end.

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                          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                            Oh I'm not saying he shouldn't have been in for this game. He was dominating and should've played the clutch minutes. Moronic decision from Casey.

                            I just disagree with anyone who's trying to extrapolate from this that he should be closing more games. Casey has generally been right to not play him in the clutch, he was wrong last night because he was having an abnormally good game.
                            It all comes down to matchups. Jordan is one such player that nobody on the Raptors can gain an advantage over besides JV - same as it is for every other team with a traditional C.

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                            • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              It all comes down to matchups. Jordan is one such player that nobody on the Raptors can gain an advantage over besides JV - same as it is for every other team with a traditional C.
                              Too simplified. It's the same as it is for teams who have a traditional C with a straightforward/simple offensive game and who is big and dominant on the glass. That applies to Drummond, DeAndre, Gobert, Whiteside and very few others.

                              The 1 on 1 matchup also isn't the only thing that matters. For example I wouldn't dare start JV against Golden State in a playoff series. While obviously Zaza is no problem for him whatsoever defensively, he is primarily used as an (illegal) screen setter to free up their other shooters, force defenses to scramble and create switches. Having JV out there is how you get raped, and the only reason we were even in that GS game was because of Poeltl's ability to switch onto KD and such.

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                              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                                Too simplified. It's the same as it is for teams who have a traditional C with a straightforward/simple offensive game and who is big and dominant on the glass. That applies to Drummond, DeAndre, Gobert, Whiteside and very few others.

                                The 1 on 1 matchup also isn't the only thing that matters. For example I wouldn't dare start JV against Golden State in a playoff series. While obviously Zaza is no problem for him whatsoever defensively, he is primarily used as an (illegal) screen setter to free up their other shooters, force defenses to scramble and create switches. Having JV out there is how you get raped, and the only reason we were even in that GS game was because of Poeltl's ability to switch onto KD and such.
                                Fair enough. On the other hand, if Casey would ever actually try to use JV to exploit a similar mismatch on the other end, it could be a different story. Unfortunately, Casey will never venture away from the DeRozan/Lowry-centric offense, regardless of other matchups and/or their effectiveness (we've seen this in the playoffs far too often).

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