Time to face the truth!

[davywilly]

The Raptors just got their heads handed to them by OKC, and it just became clear to me that this team can only be a middle of the road team as long as Lowry and Demar are the best players and leaders of this team. I love Demar just because he is loyal, appears to get along with everybody and he is highly skilled. Lowry on the other hand, I don’t really care for. I wish Masai had let him walk. The problem with our two “all stars” is that they disappear on the big stage and to make matters worse both of them couldn’t guard their positions last night. Lowry didn’t offer any resistance to Westbrook and Derozen was a spectator. Why Casey did not give more time to the bench players is baffling. It’s déjà vu all over again, this team will win close to 50 games and then be bounced out in the first round.


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[GLF]

The Raptors just got their heads handed to them by OKC, and it just became clear to me that this team can only be a middle of the road team as long as Lowry and Demar are the best players and leaders of this team. I love Demar just because he is loyal, appears to get along with everybody and he is highly skilled. Lowry on the other hand, I don’t really care for. I wish Masai had let him walk. The problem with our two “all stars” is that they disappear on the big stage and to make matters worse both of them couldn’t guard their positions last night. Lowry didn’t offer any resistance to Westbrook and Derozen was a spectator. Why Casey did not give more time to the bench players is baffling. It’s déjà vu all over again, this team will win close to 50 games and then be bounced out in the first round.


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Lowry's defence becoming worse than Demar's is the biggest shocker this season for sure. I thought it would get better by now but it's just getting worse

[Majesiu]

And I thought we would stop overreacting and going back to old narratives after two games bad games in a row... OKC come out rested and with good morale after Christmas win, when we played on 2nd night of away & away B2B, it was supposed to be hard and we still put up a fight in first and second quarter when we had any strength to play left. Let's regroup against the hawks and start new year on high note vs Bucks.

We have both better defence and offence than last year, our scoring is more evenly distributed, minutes are down for both DeMar and Kyle and we could see real progress with Ibaka becoming more comfortable in the team this month. Also dreaded west conference trips are over, because we have only 1 away game left there - @MIN (although 2nd night of B2B) which is closer than Miami or Orlando. Even more there is stellar 12-1 record at home while playing fewest amount of games there in the association.

Next big test will come in middle January when we will face GSW, CLE and SAS at home (none being B2B scenario) in span of eight days. This should give us more meaningful insight on this team ability to perform on biggest stage.

[Fully]

Gotta love when all perspective and rational thought flies out the window after every single loss or two.

The team is good. All metrics point to it. You're not incorrect necessarily that Lowry & DD are under qualified as "superstars" but guess what... there's like 5 or 6 of those guys in the world at any given time. If you think we're not good enough with Lowry & DD then how do you think we'd look if we let them walk? Are you actually advocating some type of alternate plan or just mad that we don't have KD or Lebron on our team? You're in for a long, long NBA fandom if that's what keeps you from enjoying a successful team, since the odds are that we'll have one of those players on our team only a handful of seasons over the next 100 years.

OKC is rolling right now and they kicked out butts last night. It's not a good result but it's not the end of the world either. Cleveland got blown out by Sacramento last night. The Wizards got mopped by the Hawks. There's a reason that we look at the 82 game season as a whole rather than grossly overreacting to every good or bad three game stretch.

[KeonClark]

This team IS good. BUT... it is also quite clear that we have a ceiling of conference finalist at best with Lowry and Derozan as the best players. But that didn't become clear last night, that has been clear for multiple seasons now. It's a fact of life really

[3inthekeon]

I have to disagree about ceiling. This is probably the best defensive team we've had, top 5-6 in the league. Our offensive style now is volatile. If the 3's are falling we've got a real shot to beat the Cavs, much better than in the past. If the 3's don't fall then yeah, we're dead in the water. We have to move the ball to get those looks from 3. Just have to get hot from downtown in the crucial games.

[golden]

I have to disagree about ceiling. This is probably the best defensive team we've had, top 5-6 in the league. Our offensive style now is volatile. If the 3's are falling we've got a real shot to beat the Cavs, much better than in the past. If the 3's don't fall then yeah, we're dead in the water. We have to move the ball to get those looks from 3. Just have to get hot from downtown in the crucial games.

The problem with the 3's falling is that we haven't been drafting shooters... we've been drafting players to fit around the old style of play to help out Kyle and DeMar. We drafted mobile bigs (Yak & Siakam) who could hedge on the perimeter and recover to stop penetration. And both are good offensive rebounders who can get the ball back to KL/DD, and have nice finish close to the basket. But no shooting range.

We drafted and signed defensive minded guards (Delon, Powell, FVV), who can also take some defensive load from Lowry & DD, but again aren't reliable 3-point shooters. The roster construction has been about getting guys who can lessen the defensive load from Kyle & DeMar, and get the ball back to them without turning it over. Like you said, we do have a chance if CJ and Serge get hot shooting like they're capable of in the playoffs. Delon and Powell are X-factors ... they really need to improve their outside shooting consistency.

[The Great One]

Ceiling of this team is Conference Finals.

Its the same old shit really. They'd beat up bad/average teams. But then they'd completely fold against great teams. Their two "all stars" usually disappears when they're playing a superior opponent with a superior talent like last night.

And i don't give a shit about this culture reset thing bec at the end of the day when things go rough like last night and things are going to get rough come playoff time, they'd go back to iso ball. DeRozan would force his shot and Lowry would keep jacking long 3's. Sometimes i wonder about the IQ of those two.

[3inthekeon]

The problem with the 3's falling is that we haven't been drafting shooters... we've been drafting players to fit around the old style of play to help out Kyle and DeMar. We drafted mobile bigs (Yak & Siakam) who could hedge on the perimeter and recover to stop penetration. And both are good offensive rebounders who can get the ball back to KL/DD, and have nice finish close to the basket. But no shooting range.

We drafted and signed defensive minded guards (Delon, Powell, FVV), who can also take some defensive load from Lowry & DD, but again aren't reliable 3-point shooters. The roster construction has been about getting guys who can lessen the defensive load from Kyle & DeMar, and get the ball back to them without turning it over. Like you said, we do have a chance if CJ and Serge get hot shooting like they're capable of in the playoffs. Delon and Powell are X-factors ... they really need to improve their outside shooting consistency.

You made this point earlier on shooting and I agree, it's just that inconsistent 3 point shooters can get randomly hot i.e. DD a week ago . IF and a big if, the main guys don't go cold and one or 2 of the young guys (or DD) get hot in the playoffs, this team can hang with anyone not named GSW.

[MixxAOR]

You made this point earlier on shooting and I agree, it's just that inconsistent 3 point shooters can get randomly hot i.e. DD a week ago . IF and a big if, the main guys don't go cold and one or 2 of the young guys (or DD) get hot in the playoffs, this team can hang with anyone not named GSW.

getting another shooter or two wouldn't hurt

[SkywalkerAC]

Also time, with a loss to old-man Carter and the Kings, for the Cavs to admit they don't have the depth it takes to win big in this league.

[golden]

You made this point earlier on shooting and I agree, it's just that inconsistent 3 point shooters can get randomly hot i.e. DD a week ago . IF and a big if, the main guys don't go cold and one or 2 of the young guys (or DD) get hot in the playoffs, this team can hang with anyone not named GSW.

Speaking of main guys, yeah, Lowry has to show up and hit his 3's. Simple as that. He's the leader of the team, highest paid player and best 3-pt shooter. The pressure is off him having to create offense off the dribble and get to the FT. Just hit your 3's, at a minimum.

[SkywalkerAC]

Speaking of main guys, yeah, Lowry has to show up and hit his 3's. Simple as that. He's the leader of the team, highest paid player and best 3-pt shooter. The pressure is off him having to create offense off the dribble and get to the FT. Just hit your 3's, at a minimum.

Yup, that was the main problem in the playoffs last year IMO, along with him getting injured, really stifling everything else we were trying to do offensively. If Lowry isn't a knock-down shooter, the team really suffers for it.

[grindhouse]

Demand has consistently disappeared in the playoffs. What other all star does that?

[Puffer]

The problem with the 3's falling is that we haven't been drafting shooters... we've been drafting players to fit around the old style of play to help out Kyle and DeMar. We drafted mobile bigs (Yak & Siakam) who could hedge on the perimeter and recover to stop penetration. And both are good offensive rebounders who can get the ball back to KL/DD, and have nice finish close to the basket. But no shooting range.

We drafted and signed defensive minded guards (Delon, Powell, FVV), who can also take some defensive load from Lowry & DD, but again aren't reliable 3-point shooters. The roster construction has been about getting guys who can lessen the defensive load from Kyle & DeMar, and get the ball back to them without turning it over. Like you said, we do have a chance if CJ and Serge get hot shooting like they're capable of in the playoffs. Delon and Powell are X-factors ... they really need to improve their outside shooting consistency.

The truth is the Raptors have 10 guys on the team right now shooting over 30% from three. I'm not sure what your definition of "reliable" is, but the Raptors have gone through a couple of cold games. OKC has three legitimate all-stars on their team, and what did there first 20 games look like? Does that mean they have no "reliable" shooters on their roster? Just asking.