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Is This The End For Little Kyle!

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  • Is This The End For Little Kyle!

    Being a newcomer to these forums I'm pretty certain that I've missed many a discussion of this topic in the past. But really.....the sometimes sudden decline of the 30 years plus point guard is well known. I've been a huge Lowry admirer; his determination, grit, humour, bromance with Demar and his overall game. I was very surprised at how good he turned out to be when he arrived and his playoff troubles didn't take away all of that. His backstory (very rough childhood in North Philly) made me like him more.

    However I'm worried that he is a half step slower, which has greatly limited his on ball defence and his ability to get to the rim and finish. His shooting hasn't been good either of late but that might be in part because the penetration threat isn't there. I'm not hearing the Raptor commentators talking about this at all; they tend to focus on Demar's shortcomings. But if Kyle is no longer capable of taking over games (not much talk about "Lowry Time" anymore) the current Raptor lineup becomes a 50 win team which will go out in round one. Unless Delon Wright has a very steep developmental curve; he played nearly 30 minutes tonight and when he's on the court he is always the primary ball handler. I'd be very curious as to what the Raptor coaches are thinking/saying behind closed doors. They are all basketball experts who can see these things. How do you try to restore your leader's confidence? Possibly by putting him in situations where he can catch and shoot more. That seems to be happeni

    Very interested in what you all think. I genuinely hope I'm wrong and that Kyle is in a funk for some reason. But I suspect a slight physical deterioration which obviously will worsen with time.

  • #2
    Nope. Lowry is by many measures playing some of the best basketball of his career. Him trying a little less defensively during the regular season is actually nice to see, taking a long term view, because hopefully he won't burn himself out like most years.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • #3
      We have seen the beast mode Lowry of the regular season and what we ended up with was a wasted one in the post season.

      Maybe this time around, the less Lowry now would result to a healthier one after 82 games.

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      • #4
        I can tell you from personal experience that no one physically drops off a cliff, in terms of performance, in one year.

        There has been a radical shift in style of play on the Raptors. Any personal drop off on the part of Kyle's performance is far more likely due to that... or maybe... what the heck is that thing he wears on his hand now?

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        • #5
          Lowry's D has been suspect for much of his time in Toronto. This year it's nothing new. In fact I think the eye test matches what Dan says abput measures: he is playing fantastic basketball. He has embraced the new style quite well and isn't forcing things. His level of on court leadership may be at its best right now. His minutes are also lower and despite his D not being great, he does look to have more energy on that end so far this season.

          I'm pretty happy with how Lowry's playing. In fact now that Serge has seemingly worked through his struggles and Wright is healthy, the only guy who is still underperforming is Powell.

          Oh and FVV still needs his minutes reduced. I get why Casey likes him, but he just doesn't have the tools to get the minutes he's getting.

          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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          • #6
            Kyle isn't a live or die by his shot kind of guy. But when he has his shot going he's one of the best in the game. And we saw a big stretch this season where he was on fire.

            Last three games he's been off. I don't think it's a trend. Just something that will get adjusted. Shooters go in slumps. CJ had a bad stretch too for a while.

            As for the age argument.. he'll slow down eventually but I'm not seeing much of that this year yet. His defense isn't really good but it's never really been that great. He can make highlight plays on that end, but he's always had problems keeping his guy in front of him. I think that's why Casey likes using 3 guards or at least one of FVV or Delon with him during crunch time.

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            • #7
              Oh good. Now I feel better. I can go back to worrying about everything else.

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              • #8
                there is no more reason to worry about Lowry now than there was at the beginning of the season. And alot of posters were concerned about his play then, but he worked out of it. Minor shooting slumps should be expected, and his drop in pts should be of little concern. The guy can score in bunches when needed, and we should consider ourselves lucky that we haven't needed him to do that consistently in order to win games. The new style is doing wonders for the team IMO. And, in theory at least, it could help Lowry prolong his prime (if indeed you consider him to be in his prime presently, and how could you not?).

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                • #9
                  white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  Lowry's D has been suspect for much of his time in Toronto.
                  A few thoughts on Kyle's defence. Yeah, his man defence vs PG's has never been good and is definitely not going to get any better at his age. Just as a point of reference though, the average PG gets blown by about 40% of the time. (And sometimes people don't differentiate blow-bys from weaking.) He has rightly received criticism for being less than enthusiastic in fighting through screens at times, and his size prevents him from being anything close to effective at closing out on the perimeter.

                  On the other hand, his team defence, i.e. making smart and correct reads has drawn praise over the years from a number of sources. He's remarkably good when seemingly mismatched in ISO situations. He's still a master of taking charges and his defensive rebounding has been crazy good this year.

                  Still, adding up all his strengths and weaknesses, he's graded out as one of the better point guard defenders in the NBA in the past and again this year.
                  If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                  • #10
                    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                    A few thoughts on Kyle's defence. Yeah, his man defence vs PG's has never been good and is definitely not going to get any better at his age. Just as a point of reference though, the average PG gets blown by about 40% of the time. (And sometimes people don't differentiate blow-bys from weaking.) He has rightly received criticism for being less than enthusiastic in fighting through screens at times, and his size prevents him from being anything close to effective at closing out on the perimeter.

                    On the other hand, his team defence, i.e. making smart and correct reads has drawn praise over the years from a number of sources. He's remarkably good when seemingly mismatched in ISO situations. He's still a master of taking charges and his defensive rebounding has been crazy good this year.

                    Still, adding up all his strengths and weaknesses, he's graded out as one of the better point guard defenders in the NBA in the past and again this year.
                    His team D is the part that's gotten better this year from what I can tell, hopefully because the lessened minutes and more team-oriented offence are giving him more energy. He's been better at fighting through screens and making his rotations. Exactly the kind of things that aren't that surprising if he has more energy for that end because his IQ has always been pretty high.

                    I have no big complaints with his D. Consistently good man-D is pretty rare from starting PGs.

                    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                    • #11
                      Mitch P wrote: View Post
                      Being a newcomer to these forums I'm pretty certain that I've missed many a discussion of this topic in the past. But really.....the sometimes sudden decline of the 30 years plus point guard is well known. I've been a huge Lowry admirer; his determination, grit, humour, bromance with Demar and his overall game. I was very surprised at how good he turned out to be when he arrived and his playoff troubles didn't take away all of that. His backstory (very rough childhood in North Philly) made me like him more.

                      However I'm worried that he is a half step slower, which has greatly limited his on ball defence and his ability to get to the rim and finish. His shooting hasn't been good either of late but that might be in part because the penetration threat isn't there. I'm not hearing the Raptor commentators talking about this at all; they tend to focus on Demar's shortcomings. But if Kyle is no longer capable of taking over games (not much talk about "Lowry Time" anymore) the current Raptor lineup becomes a 50 win team which will go out in round one. Unless Delon Wright has a very steep developmental curve; he played nearly 30 minutes tonight and when he's on the court he is always the primary ball handler. I'd be very curious as to what the Raptor coaches are thinking/saying behind closed doors. They are all basketball experts who can see these things. How do you try to restore your leader's confidence? Possibly by putting him in situations where he can catch and shoot more. That seems to be happeni

                      Very interested in what you all think. I genuinely hope I'm wrong and that Kyle is in a funk for some reason. But I suspect a slight physical deterioration which obviously will worsen with time.
                      Lowry time seemed to happen in years passed when the team was playing without energy and kyle would respond with energy usually from a offensive point a view. For most of the part these energy laws are happening as much as in previous years as more guys are touching the ball so Kyles energy does not stand out.

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                      • #12
                        The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                        We have seen the beast mode Lowry of the regular season and what we ended up with was a wasted one in the post season.

                        Maybe this time around, the less Lowry now would result to a healthier one after 82 games.
                        This year, Raps have a luxury for playing KLow below 33 mins/game compared to 37.5MPG last year. And there is quite little need for "Lowry time" as Delon and FVV do their business pretty well while Lowry sitting. So, he doesn't need playing lights out every night. I just hope that this does not extrapolate into pouting once playoffs come. Mentally, he still has that bulldog mentality hence all should be OK.
                        Raps in 4 !

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                        • #13
                          RaptorHusky wrote: View Post
                          This year, Raps have a luxury for playing KLow below 33 mins/game compared to 37.5MPG last year..
                          Actually they had that "luxury" last year as well. There have been people here and elsewhere pointing it out quite some time ago that Lowry was overused in the regular season.

                          Masai's offseason culture change comment of "making the playoffs is nothing. That was back in the day." was widely taken as a call for an offensive style change, but if that was all he meant, he would have put it differently. Pretty sure there had been a number of internal issues, one of them being a battle between McKechnie and Lowry for some time in limiting his minutes. Casey had been acquiescing to Lowry until Masai publicly, even if not specifically, sided with McKechnie.
                          Last edited by 3inthekeon; Sun Dec 31, 2017, 09:48 AM.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                          • #14
                            Reports of Lowry's demise are premature. I love the little bulldog but still think he's an over pay and not sure of the value in the latter years for sure. But other than try and sign him for 20M, what choice did we have?
                            Glad we have him now for sure.

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                            • #15
                              Mitch P wrote: View Post
                              Being a newcomer to these forums I'm pretty certain that I've missed many a discussion of this topic in the past. But really.....the sometimes sudden decline of the 30 years plus point guard is well known. I've been a huge Lowry admirer; his determination, grit, humour, bromance with Demar and his overall game. I was very surprised at how good he turned out to be when he arrived and his playoff troubles didn't take away all of that. His backstory (very rough childhood in North Philly) made me like him more.

                              However I'm worried that he is a half step slower, which has greatly limited his on ball defence and his ability to get to the rim and finish. His shooting hasn't been good either of late but that might be in part because the penetration threat isn't there. I'm not hearing the Raptor commentators talking about this at all; they tend to focus on Demar's shortcomings. But if Kyle is no longer capable of taking over games (not much talk about "Lowry Time" anymore) the current Raptor lineup becomes a 50 win team which will go out in round one. Unless Delon Wright has a very steep developmental curve; he played nearly 30 minutes tonight and when he's on the court he is always the primary ball handler. I'd be very curious as to what the Raptor coaches are thinking/saying behind closed doors. They are all basketball experts who can see these things. How do you try to restore your leader's confidence? Possibly by putting him in situations where he can catch and shoot more. That seems to be happeni

                              Very interested in what you all think. I genuinely hope I'm wrong and that Kyle is in a funk for some reason. But I suspect a slight physical deterioration which obviously will worsen with time.
                              I like your desire to spark some conversation, but FYI there are established threads for this kind of thing. Here's the Everything Kyle Lowry thread.

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