Game #53: Boston Celtics 91 - Toronto Raptors 111

[KeonClark]

This Raptors team is as close as it gets to the 2004 Pistons team that won it all. We don't have a top 5 player, which I think is what Hotshot was alluding to, but that Pistons team took down the Lakers in part because of the Shaq vs Kobe feuding that affected the team. Sounds a lot like what's happening in Cleveland with "Lebron vs. everybody else" in that organization, no?

It's funny, we always think "the pistons won with 4 all NBA guys and a stud glue guy"

But, looking at strictly 2003-04 they only had one all star. Ben wallace. Wallace was a top 5 player at the time. The other 4 guys were in the 30-50 range. So breaking down both starting units:

1. Ben Wallace - top 5
2. Demar derozan - top 10
3. Kyle Lowry - top 30
4. Chauncey billups - top 40
5. Sheed Wallace - top 50
6. Jonas valanciuans - top 50
7. Serge ibaka - top 50
8. Rip Hamilton - top 50
9. Tayshaun prince - top 60
10. Og/fvv/Wright/siakam - top of the world

Quite comparable actually. Obvs golden State didn't exist then, But a finals birth would be like a ring to me this year

[golden]

This Raptors team is as close as it gets to the 2004 Pistons team that won it all. We don't have a top 5 player, which I think is what Hotshot was alluding to, but that Pistons team took down the Lakers in part because of the Shaq vs Kobe feuding that affected the team. Sounds a lot like what's happening in Cleveland with "Lebron vs. everybody else" in that organization, no?

[LJ2]

Why wouldn't they? This is who they are. I think coaches often try to get too cute by half in the playoffs with changing things up and then they get in trouble throwing everything out of synch.

The Raptors bench has given them a huge boost, but normally teams tighten up their rotation for the playoffs. If I were to provide an answer to your question I would have to think something along the lines of the opposing team having their starters out against our bench unit may not work in our favour.

[KeonClark]

Why wouldn't they? This is who they are. I think coaches often try to get too cute by half in the playoffs with changing things up and then they get in trouble throwing everything out of synch.

I think they have to. Powell looks to be the odd man out when fully healthy, but I think you stick with 10 in the playoffs. The one guy who may see a decrease would be poeltl imo. If jv and ibaka are rolling, some games you may only see siakam and run tight frontcourt. Just my 2 cents anyways

[slaw]

Great point about the new offence being built to beat the type of defence Boston uses. Would have like to see DeMar put a bit more pressure on their D in the first half before passing the ball, but can't complain here. In the past he would have forced the issue taking bad shots. Brown for a young player has the ability to lock up DD, so great he recognizes how to contribute positively.

Bench was huge, but what do they do when the playoffs roll around? They wouldn't maintain this rotation would they?

Why wouldn't they? This is who they are. I think coaches often try to get too cute by half in the playoffs with changing things up and then they get in trouble throwing everything out of synch.

[SkywalkerAC]

I would love to add a shooter as well but the question is where do you play that guy and at who's expense? You take FVV off the floor (hurt your offense)? Wright (hurt your defense)? Miles (which replaces one shooter with another)? And what does it do to that second unit's chemistry? If you start him, does OG fit with that second unit at this point?

You add another player not as a guaranteed part of the rotation, but as insurance, and some added sharp-shooting - a specialist if you will. We've got a roster spot open and room under the tax/apron, so we don't have to give up anything. And pretty unlikely such a player would replace anyone in the rotation at this point, but all it takes is an injury, or a slump, or a matchup, and this addition will come in handy.

[tDotted]

On a basketball note, we always give credit to opposing teams for making a good adjustment on Derozan or Lowry or whatever but I'd like to give a nod to Raps staff for a very subtle tactic they used against the Celtics offense.

Boston loves to use Horford to initiate action in its offense and the Raps snuffed it out with ball pressure and denying hard on the passing lanes inviting difficult passes on back cuts that would then run into the teeth of the defense. Celts had to reset on numerous occasions as a result. Anyway, just a very small thing that threw a wrench into things for Boston.

This was huge. Horford said post-game that he's never been guarded like that all year so he really didn't know how to adjust to that situation and it showed. Fantastic tactic by the coaching staff.

[SkywalkerAC]

I could see the Raps winning a bunch in a row right now. At least they should. The Houston game (but at home) looms but isn't it nice that literally every game now seems really winnable? A lot of little things went our way tonight (though not the whistle) and Kyrie missed some open shots but there is no question that things are really coming together for this team. Jack Armstrong seems to think we need another shooter and perhaps he's right but I wouldn't give up any of the bench mob right now and I'm not sure who I'd want to take minutes from either. If ever you wanted to "stand pat" with a team this might be the one because it's so dependent on chemistry rather than just talent.

We have an open roster spot. Good chance we just add an insurance/bench veteran for the min. I wouldn't bet on this player being part of the rotation, but you've got to beef up as much as you can for a long playoff run.

[rocwell]

Kyrie's flat earth:

[CalgaryRapsFan]

This year's team reminds me of the 2007 team. As long as the starters (ie: Bosh, Ford, Rasho, etc...) could keep it close, you knew the bench brigade (ie: Calderon, Mo-P, Barganani, etc...) was going to come in and use ball movement and 3pt shooting to give the team the lead. The star players may be on the first unit, but the second unit is just so much more fun to watch. Great energy, great defense, and great chemistry together!

[DanH]

That's the thing, our starters are not top 5 in the league but the Raptors bench is.

Except, they are.

The Raptors' starters' average a +7.3 net rating, 3rd in the league. Their bench averages a +7.3 net rating (that's insane how balanced this team is), good for 2nd in the league.

In terms of biggest minutes lineups (200+ minutes played, which nicely works out to 30 lineups), the Raptors' current starting 5 is 8th in net rating at +12.4. ZERO of the lineups above them have played more minutes, and only one (OKC's starting lineup) has played over 400 minutes (the Raptors' lineup has played 557 minutes), while 4 of the 7 above them are below 300 MP.

[golden]

Reading the last few posts, it almost sounds like we have too many options with the depth of talent on our roster.

[LJ2]

This was a big win - the Raptors have to really believe they can beat anybody in the East. They didn't think they could beat Lebron the last two years and it showed.

Thing with Boston is their perimeter-heavy defence would have killed the old Raptors. The new offence was designed to beat teams like this.

Also the Raps' D does not get enough credit. It's much more mobile and switches a lot now (#2 overall in blocks is fun too), but most of all they sustain high intensity for much more of the game than they ever used to. They used to show flashes but they never sustained it. The crazy bench is a big part of that. I swear this is like watching two teams play on the same team. Crazy. Second game in a row the bench closed out the entire 4th quarter.

And as long as fan comment updates are being passed back and forth, feel free to tell Celtics fans to kiss my white Irish ass. That game was fun.

Great point about the new offence being built to beat the type of defence Boston uses. Would have like to see DeMar put a bit more pressure on their D in the first half before passing the ball, but can't complain here. In the past he would have forced the issue taking bad shots. Brown for a young player has the ability to lock up DD, so great he recognizes how to contribute positively.

Bench was huge, but what do they do when the playoffs roll around? They wouldn't maintain this rotation would they?

[LJ2]

You're not the only one
[IMG]

Celtics coach Brad Stevens pregame on the Raptors bench: pic.twitter.com/ExLIFLid8i

— Dhiren Mahiban (@dcmahiban) 7 February 2018

[/IMG]

Already disecting our strengths and weaknesses in prep for the playoffs.

[LJ2]

On a basketball note, we always give credit to opposing teams for making a good adjustment on Derozan or Lowry or whatever but I'd like to give a nod to Raps staff for a very subtle tactic they used against the Celtics offense.

Boston loves to use Horford to initiate action in its offense and the Raps snuffed it out with ball pressure and denying hard on the passing lanes inviting difficult passes on back cuts that would then run into the teeth of the defense. Celts had to reset on numerous occasions as a result. Anyway, just a very small thing that threw a wrench into things for Boston.

JV did a great job getting up and into Horford.