Everything 2018 Off Season

[Other Scott]

Could not disagree with this more. How the fuck are they a more attractive package?

DD is a 4 time all star (3 in a row) who will give you 23+ points per game every single night.

We crap on DD's defense but it's better than both Ball and Ingram's defense, they're that bad.

DD's TS% (which is a way more valuable metric than FG%) is much better than both those guys and above the league average. That's efficient dependable huge scoring output, something Ball and Ingram don't provide and likely never will.

OG is a way better propsect than both Ingram and Ball, not even close in my mind. He defends way better and he scores more efficiently. He could develop into the next Kawhi. Ball and Ingram don't have anywhere near that kind of potential.

So the Spurs either get a 4 time all star who can score efficiently in bunches plus an outstanding prospect who is already a plus defender, or they get 2 players who did not live up to their hype and have been incredibly underwhelming to bad so far in their NBA careers.

You're equating an in his prime Derozan with 20 year olds though - you're paying for the potential not what they are now.

I think we fundamentally disagree on Ball and Ingram and their value as prospects.

[rocwell]

Break the NBA: Let's add Kawhi Leonard to the @Warriors (via @RattoNBCS)https://t.co/YsIW6so8g9 pic.twitter.com/NzhG7Zf73G

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 15, 2018

[Scraptor]

Could not disagree with this more. How the fuck are they a more attractive package?

DD is a 4 time all star (3 in a row) who will give you 23+ points per game every single night.

We crap on DD's defense but it's better than both Ball and Ingram's defense, they're that bad.

DD's TS% (which is a way more valuable metric than FG%) is much better than both those guys and above the league average. That's efficient dependable huge scoring output, something Ball and Ingram don't provide and likely never will.

OG is a way better propsect than both Ingram and Ball, not even close in my mind. He defends way better and he scores more efficiently. He could develop into the next Kawhi. Ball and Ingram don't have anywhere near that kind of potential.

So the Spurs either get a 4 time all star who can score efficiently in bunches plus an outstanding prospect who is already a plus defender, or they get 2 players who did not live up to their hype and have been incredibly underwhelming to bad so far in their NBA careers.

Take off your homer goggles buddy.

OG is way better than Ball and Ingram? It's not even close? Did you watch either of those guys play this year?

Lonzo had the third best DRPM among point guards and averaged more assists than Kyle as a rookie. He can't shoot but he still has time to figure it out.

Ingram made a big jump and averaged much more points, rebounds, assists and blocks per 36 than OG, while still being younger than OG.

OG is a good prospect but at best he's comparable to Ball/Ingram. As for DeMar, his DRPM was significantly below both those guys, and his defense is worse by the eye test too, so I'm not sure the Spurs are going to want a 29 year old who has never really been held accountable on one end of the floor.

But hey, we have the next few weeks to see. If our players are attractive as people are proposing in all these trades, Masai should have no problem finding a trade partner and shaking up our roster.

[golden]

The Spurs need to be careful tho trading with the Lakers. The Lakers have a bunch of overrated young players. Look at Clarkson and Nance lol.

Ball is the only good one they have and i don't think that's going to be enough.

Lonzo is basically a Ricky Rubio clone, with better rebounding. RC Buford should be fired on the spot if he makes Ball the centerpiece coming back to the Spurs in a Kawhi trade.

[inthepaint]

I think you gotta take your chances

I agree; I pitched a variation of this trade here before the Kawhi news:

1. With SAC --> Siakam + Miles for Bog Bodganovatic + Labissiere + 2020 first round pick (or any trade that would give you a decent shooting guard and a future pick)
2. With Spurs --> Derozan + Wright + TOR 2019 Second rounder + TOR 2020 First rounder + SAC 2020 first round pick for Kawhi + Mills

Spurs get an All star in his prime + plus a young point guard (which they need) + 3 future picks to get younger

Raps start Lowry/Bogdanovic/Kawhi/OG/JV, which is tremendous defence on the wing, and no one with less than 37% 3P%.

We may not have as many assets/picks as Boston and Philly but we're one of the deepest teams in the NBA as currently constructed. I don't think he should do this for a rental, but If Masai wanted to leverage this depth to bring Kawhi (with the goal of convincing him to stay by being in a winning environment) I think he could compete with Boston and Philly in terms of offers.

The argument against bringing him here is that it would be like a Paul George situation (just a rental before he goes to LA), though if that's the case, Boston and Philly would also have that problem. And yet it sounds like they're very much in the destination conversation even though Kawhi said nothing about wanting to go to either place.

[Rudy Bargnani]

I think it’s very unlikely a team like the spurs and popovich trades for a guy like Lonzo Ball.

Celtics could be a good landing spot.

[rocwell]

Jimmy Butler 'uncertain' about playing with Andrew Wiggins, had issues with Wiggins' work ethic, approach on defense, per @SeanDeveney https://t.co/5dWCZbnHRg pic.twitter.com/DSBcQID02t

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) June 15, 2018

[KeonClark]

Have i missed some news on PG13? Everybody's talking like he's already gone to LA..dont be surprised to see him re up in okc, unless he's a complete liar in his end of season comments.

Every summer..hes going to LA! And he's going to LA..who was the last superstar free agent that ACTUALLY went to LA? honest question, not rhetorical

[Primer]

Take off your homer goggles buddy.

OG is way better than Ball and Ingram? It's not even close? Did you watch either of those guys play this year?

Lonzo had the third best DRPM among point guards and averaged more assists than Kyle as a rookie. He can't shoot but he still has time to figure it out.

Ingram made a big jump and averaged much more points, rebounds, assists and blocks per 36 than OG, while still being younger than OG.

OG is a good prospect but at best he's comparable to Ball/Ingram. As for DeMar, his DRPM was significantly below both those guys, and his defense is worse by the eye test too, so I'm not sure the Spurs are going to want a 29 year old who has never really been held accountable on one end of the floor.

But hey, we have the next few weeks to see. If our players are attractive as people are proposing in all these trades, Masai should have no problem finding a trade partner and shaking up our roster.

Ingram's ORTG is bad, his DRTG is bad, his TS% is bad.

Ball's ORTG is bad, his DRTG is bad, his TS% is fucking horrendous, and his FT% is a laughable 45%, he's as bad as Ben Wallace.

OG's ORTG is good, his DRTG is good, his TS% is excellent.

Ingram is a twig and will always struggle guarding anyone over 200lbs, OG is a beast and can defend just about anyone in the league.

Ball is definitely a better prospect than Ingram, so he's the big fish in the deal and he's not a very good catch.

I think Boston will be able to make the strongest offer so I don't think we get in on the sweepstakes, but if we did an offer of DD and OG is way better than Ball and Ingram.

[Primer]

Have i missed some news on PG13? Everybody's talking like he's already gone to LA..dont be surprised to see him re up in okc, unless he's a complete liar in his end of season comments.

Every summer..hes going to LA! And he's going to LA..who was the last superstar free agent that ACTUALLY went to LA? honest question, not rhetorical

Shaq.

[planetmars]

Shaq.

I was going to say Nash but he was 35 at the time. He did have suitors including Toronto and NY though.

[Truth Teller]

Why would the Spurs want Demar Derozan (although I also don't see why they would want Ball)?

Just on potential - Ball and Ingram are a much better package than DD and OG.

[Truth Teller]

Lonzo is basically a Ricky Rubio clone, with better rebounding. RC Buford should be fired on the spot if he makes Ball the centerpiece coming back to the Spurs in a Kawhi trade.

You guys are underrating Ball because of how much noise surrounding him (due to his father). Ball averaged 11, 7 and 7 in his first year. Those are very good rookie numbers. His FT shooting was awful, but he shot 31% from 3 and 45% from the field which is so-so.

[planetmars]

Why would the Spurs want Demar Derozan (although I also don't see why they would want Ball)?

Just on potential - Ball and Ingram are a much better package than DD and OG.

Does SA want prospects or win now guys? They still have Gasol and LMA on their roster. Pops seems like a win now type of guy to me. That's really what it comes down to.

Ball/Ingram have potential but they are not win now guys.

[Truth Teller]

Ingram's ORTG is bad, his DRTG is bad, his TS% is bad.

Ball's ORTG is bad, his DRTG is bad, his TS% is fucking horrendous, and his FT% is a laughable 45%, he's as bad as Ben Wallace.

OG's ORTG is good, his DRTG is good, his TS% is excellent.

Ingram is a twig and will always struggle guarding anyone over 200lbs, OG is a beast and can defend just about anyone in the league.

Ball is definitely a better prospect than Ingram, so he's the big fish in the deal and he's not a very good catch.

I think Boston will be able to make the strongest offer so I don't think we get in on the sweepstakes, but if we did an offer of DD and OG is way better than Ball and Ingram.

Except Lebron.

But this is a pretty biased perspective. The Lakers aren't selling Ingram and Ball at face value, they are selling potential. The one thing that separate solid roleplayers (OG) and potential superstars is the ability to create their own shot - which is why Ingram was the 2nd overall pick.

Spurs hang up if Raptors offered that. They would listen if to the Lakers offer, but ask for a bit more.