Everything 2018 Off Season

[Barolt]

Is this a Gar Forman burner account?

Not sure how else to say this.. but Chicago is seriously getting way to much for Robin fricken Lopez and Bobby Portis.

It's a type of package you could use to get someone like Kawhi Leonard after he just signed a 4 year deal. And it's not really that great for Minny. Give Minny the two picks and it looks much better. They'd still probably say no to Powell though and his contract.

Love it for Toronto.. so the homer in me loves it.

Chicago isn't getting those assets for Robin Lopez and Bobby Portis. Those guys are ancillary parts of the deal.

Chicago is getting those assets so Toronto and Minnesota can take their cap space.

[white men can't jump]

Hmm ya that's an angle I hadn't considered.. good point ... I wonder.



Nothing to do with his performance really, but more so just that I thought the Spurs would keep him until Retirement on minimum deals or something .. which is what they probably tried to do, but he took the $5M from MJ.

But I don't think they view him the same as Duncan and Manu. Parker was a talent they needed but he was always a bit physically and mentally soft. And last year he was bad-mouthing their superstar publicly, showing the kind of immaturity the Spurs don't like and didn't like about Parker when he was a young player.

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[DanH]

Chicago isn't getting those assets for Robin Lopez and Bobby Portis. Those guys are ancillary parts of the deal.

Chicago is getting those assets so Toronto and Minnesota can take their cap space.

Yep. Now, if Chicago is open to the deal, maybe they don't need the extra Minny pick to make it happen, and that makes Minny easier to bring on board.

[inthepaint]

Is this a Gar Forman burner account?

Not sure how else to say this.. but Chicago is seriously getting way to much for Robin fricken Lopez and Bobby Portis.

It's a type of package you could use to get someone like Kawhi Leonard after he just signed a 4 year deal. And it's not really that great for Minny. Give Minny the two picks and it looks much better. They'd still probably say no to Powell though and his contract.

Love it for Toronto.. so the homer in me loves it.

Yeah that's too much for the bulls. Chicago Pick to the Wolves maybe...will make it more balanced. This is also saying we're "selling low" on Norm and Serge, both of whom had the worst season of their careers probably, but they should be better players next season (it's hard to go down from where they were). But yeah if the premise is getting rid of their contracts right now while getting Butler, that's one way to do it.

[Apollo]

So the last straw for Kawhi was Tony Parker's comments. Now Tony bails on the team. I don't think it changes things for Kawhi. The Spurs handled this sooooo poorly.

[planetmars]

Ibaka has become so underrated around these parts. He was actually really good in the regular season. And was really good in the first two games of round 1. He then fell of a cliff.

Maybe the minutes need to come down for Ibaka like they did for Lowry? He is what he is though. He's no star. He's a good role player that can shoot the ball well. I mean he was still a 36% 3pt shooter for us last year.. that's pretty good for a guy that can still block shots too.

The problem is he's not a star and we can't rely on him to be one. If we set the expectations properly he's a good player.. might even be better than Siakam.. who still needs a lot of help with his shooting. Can't assume he'll develop that over the summer so quickly.

As for cap space.. the only thing we're doing is saving MLSE money. Why? If the cost is another pick than it's not worth it for me. If we feel like we're going to be repeaters than we shed our expiring deals next season before they become a noose. That's not a worry for this summer / year.

So if the cost to shed Ibaka and Powell is a draft pick.. forget it. Do the deal without them:

Chicago gets Wiggins and Minny's pick
Minny gets Portis, DeMar and Poeltl
Toronto gets Lopez and Butler.

Doesn't seem fair to me.. but that would work as well and we keep some of our bench depth and our pick. Chicago gets Minny's pick for saving Minny money.

Looking at the contracts that should work.


Chicago=+$25M (Wiggins) -$16.5M (Lopez+Portis) = +$8.5M
Toronto= +$34M (Butler+Lopez) -$31M (DeMar+Poeltl) = +$3M
Minny = +$33.5M (DeMar+Poeltl+Portis) -$45M (Butler+Wiggins) = -$11.5M


Toronto gains more $$$ so what. We'll still have Ibaka, Wright and Powell. And a net loss of 0 players.

[Barolt]

Ibaka has become so underrated around these parts. He was actually really good in the regular season. And was really good in the first two games of round 1. He then fell of a cliff.

Maybe the minutes need to come down for Ibaka like they did for Lowry? He is what he is though. He's no star. He's a good role player that can shoot the ball well. I mean he was still a 36% 3pt shooter for us last year.. that's pretty good for a guy that can still block shots too.

The problem is he's not a star and we can't rely on him to be one. If we set the expectations properly he's a good player.. might even be better than Siakam.. who still needs a lot of help with his shooting. Can't assume he'll develop that over the summer so quickly.

As for cap space.. the only thing we're doing is saving MLSE money. Why? If the cost is another pick than it's not worth it for me. If we feel like we're going to be repeaters than we shed our expiring deals next season before they become a noose. That's not a worry for this summer / year.

So if the cost to shed Ibaka and Powell is a draft pick.. forget it. Do the deal without them:

Chicago gets Wiggins and Minny's pick
Minny gets Portis, DeMar and Poeltl
Toronto gets Lopez and Butler.

Doesn't seem fair to me.. but that would work as well and we keep some of our bench depth and our pick. Chicago gets Minny's pick for saving Minny money.

Looking at the contracts that should work.


Chicago=+$25M (Wiggins) -$16.5M (Lopez+Portis) = +$8.5M
Toronto= +$34M (Butler+Lopez) -$31M (DeMar+Poeltl) = +$3M
Minny = +$33.5M (DeMar+Poeltl+Portis) -$45M (Butler+Wiggins) = -$11.5M


Toronto gains more $$$ so what. We'll still have Ibaka, Wright and Powell. And a net loss of 0 players.

I think getting out of the tax is a key factor in the trade I posted, I think it's something the Raptors will be looking to do.

[planetmars]

I think getting out of the tax is a key factor in the trade I posted, I think it's something the Raptors will be looking to do.

Why though? Fricken OKC is paying tax.. We just gave FVV $9M. We are paying the tax. Masai just didn't want to be a repeater that's why he paid to give away Carroll last year. This year is differently. Plus the cap goes up next year as well.

Toronto better not duck the tax this year man. If they give away a pick to do it.. what a disaster.

[S.R.]

Why though? Fricken OKC is paying tax.. We just gave FVV $9M. We are paying the tax. Masai just didn't want to be a repeater that's why he paid to give away Carroll last year. This year is differently. Plus the cap goes up next year as well.

Toronto better not duck the tax this year man. If they give away a pick to do it.. what a disaster.

No way they're giving away picks to duck the tax. If that's the situation they're in on account of keeping this roster together, then they should hit the big red button.

[Barolt]

No way they're giving away picks to duck the tax. If that's the situation they're in on account of keeping this roster together, then they should hit the big red button.

You're not giving away picks just to duck the tax - you're accomplishing two goals in this trade.

1)Upgrading the roster to win now, with Butler coming in. Gives them a legitimate top-tier star and upgrades the defense.

2)Avoiding the tax, protecting against future salary dumps, while maintaining the best young assets on the team.

[planetmars]

You're not giving away picks just to duck the tax - you're accomplishing two goals in this trade.

1)Upgrading the roster to win now, with Butler coming in. Gives them a legitimate top-tier star and upgrades the defense.

2)Avoiding the tax, protecting against future salary dumps, while maintaining the best young assets on the team.

The pick is going to Chicago so that they can eat some of our salary.. That's ducking the tax and giving a pick to do so. If you had the pick going to Minny it would make more sense.. but that was not the original take.

If you can get Butler without giving up all the prospects you gave up and the pick than why do so? It was to get under the tax.. which again should not be a mandate for this team otherwise we might as well just blow it up.

[The Great One]

Pelicans FINALLY made the playoffs last season, and now they just let Cousins and Rondo walk away. I don't get it.

[white men can't jump]

Pelicans FINALLY made the playoffs last season, and now they just let Cousins and Rondo walk away. I don't get it.

Well Cousins didn't help them do shit.

And Rondo may have chosen to go to LAL, not so much that NOP let him walk. He apparently wanted to play in LA, and also play with LeBron because it probably means a better chance at winning. And the Pels don't have money to outbid LA.

So I don't know what you're not getting. Letting Cousins walk was the smart move. Losing Rondo was his choice, not theirs.

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[thead]

I mean he was still a 36% 3pt shooter for us last year..

I believe the stat is accurate. I don't know if this is just my gut or what, but it feels like the stat was closer to 20%. I feel like I watched him brick a lot of threes

[Barolt]

The pick is going to Chicago so that they can eat some of our salary.. That's ducking the tax and giving a pick to do so. If you had the pick going to Minny it would make more sense.. but that was not the original take.

If you can get Butler without giving up all the prospects you gave up and the pick than why do so? It was to get under the tax.. which again should not be a mandate for this team otherwise we might as well just blow it up.

Don't think in terms of who else is getting what. Think of it in terms of what you're giving up vs. value back. This is two young players and a pick being attached to move two bad contracts and swap DeRozan for Butler. It's essentially the same trade we were talking about a few days ago, except with the added benefit of getting out from under the Ibaka and Norm contracts.