Everything 2018 Off Season

[Rudy Bargnani]

I believe the stat is accurate. I don't know if this is just my gut or what, but it feels like the stat was closer to 20%. I feel like I watched him brick a lot of threes

I feel like Ibaka would hit 4 3’s in one game and then be terrible for 2 weeks. Then hit 3 3’s in a game and be terrible for another 2 weeks.

Rinse repeat.

[planetmars]

Don't think in terms of who else is getting what. Think of it in terms of what you're giving up vs. value back. This is two young players and a pick being attached to move two bad contracts and swap DeRozan for Butler. It's essentially the same trade we were talking about a few days ago, except with the added benefit of getting out from under the Ibaka and Norm contracts.

What I'm giving up is Poeltl, Wright, Powell, DeMar, Serge and a pick.

What I'm getting is Butler, Lopez.

Really don't like it.

Would prefer to keep both my prospects and pick if I don't have to move them. Would prefer Serge over Robin since I can have Serge at the 4. I can't have Robin at the 4 and he can't play next to JV. Plus Serge can stretch the floor. We need shooters desperately.

I only have one PF on my roster now instead of two. I hate that I'm losing a pick just to get rid of guys just to duck the tax. I get cap space (probably) if Butler leaves. But what are we going to do with it? If we're tanking than we lost two prospects and a pick which doesn't help. The gamble is too much just to save MLSE money this year.

I really don't like this deal. Sorry man.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Don't think in terms of who else is getting what. Think of it in terms of what you're giving up vs. value back. This is two young players and a pick being attached to move two bad contracts and swap DeRozan for Butler. It's essentially the same trade we were talking about a few days ago, except with the added benefit of getting out from under the Ibaka and Norm contracts.

I admire your passion in defending hypothetical trade machine trades.

[GLF]

Ibaka has become so underrated around these parts. He was actually really good in the regular season. And was really good in the first two games of round 1. He then fell of a cliff.

Maybe the minutes need to come down for Ibaka like they did for Lowry? He is what he is though. He's no star. He's a good role player that can shoot the ball well. I mean he was still a 36% 3pt shooter for us last year.. that's pretty good for a guy that can still block shots too.

The problem is he's not a star and we can't rely on him to be one. If we set the expectations properly he's a good player.. might even be better than Siakam.. who still needs a lot of help with his shooting. Can't assume he'll develop that over the summer so quickly.

As for cap space.. the only thing we're doing is saving MLSE money. Why? If the cost is another pick than it's not worth it for me. If we feel like we're going to be repeaters than we shed our expiring deals next season before they become a noose. That's not a worry for this summer / year.

So if the cost to shed Ibaka and Powell is a draft pick.. forget it. Do the deal without them:

Chicago gets Wiggins and Minny's pick
Minny gets Portis, DeMar and Poeltl
Toronto gets Lopez and Butler.

Doesn't seem fair to me.. but that would work as well and we keep some of our bench depth and our pick. Chicago gets Minny's pick for saving Minny money.

Looking at the contracts that should work.


Chicago=+$25M (Wiggins) -$16.5M (Lopez+Portis) = +$8.5M
Toronto= +$34M (Butler+Lopez) -$31M (DeMar+Poeltl) = +$3M
Minny = +$33.5M (DeMar+Poeltl+Portis) -$45M (Butler+Wiggins) = -$11.5M


Toronto gains more $$$ so what. We'll still have Ibaka, Wright and Powell. And a net loss of 0 players.

No one cares about the regular season. Serge was horrible in the playoffs except for those first two games like you said and he was VERY inconsistent in the regular season. If he were one of our younger players I would chill out on him more but he's a veteran and should have played much much better in my opinion. I kept saying as long as he plays well in the playoffs everything will be forgotten but he never did. Hopefully Nurse finds a way to use his skill set better and we lower his minutes.

[GLF]

I feel like Ibaka would hit 4 3’s in one game and then be terrible for 2 weeks. Then hit 3 3’s in a game and be terrible for another 2 weeks.

Rinse repeat.

Pretty much. He was extremely inconsistent

[planetmars]

Pretty much. He was extremely inconsistent

Yeah Serge can be better.. but we're out of options man. I'd rather have Serge than Siakam who was like terrible from 3 last year.. I mean you could have Howard take as many corner 3's as he did.. and he'd probably score more.

Serge can at least space the floor for our other guys. Siakam is our only other PF. You get rid of Ibaka we are screwed. Unless we can trade him for a cheaper stretch 4/5 it's not worth moving him. Just have to reign in his minutes.. and give him lots of DNP-CD's. Basically the Wade treatment.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Zac LaVine signs offer sheet with Sacramento. 4 years $78mill.

[planetmars]

Zac LaVine signs offer sheet with Sacramento. 4 years $78mill.

I can see the Bulls matching that. He was one of the significant contracts in that Butler trade. Might be bad optics to let him go. But that's a lot of money.

[The Great One]

I can see the Bulls matching that. He was one of the significant contracts in that Butler trade. Might be bad optics to let him go. But that's a lot of money.

THey have no choice. They are promoting him as aa future all star player.

[planetmars]

Kings offer sheet for LaVine would start at $18.6m assuming it has max 5% raises. Interesting dynamic, if Bulls match they lose ~$9m in space as his cap hold goes up to starting salary, dropping room from $24m to $15m. So they've got 2 days to use that space in a trade.

— Nate Duncan (@NateDuncanNBA) July 7, 2018

Interesting.. Powell sort of fits nicely in that $9M space (Norm makes $9.3M this year) that they could lose if they match. Doubt they would be interested but wouldn't hurt to call them and ask.

Buy a Zach LaVine.. and you get a free Norm Powell

[GLF]

Yeah Serge can be better.. but we're out of options man. I'd rather have Serge than Siakam who was like terrible from 3 last year.. I mean you could have Howard take as many corner 3's as he did.. and he'd probably score more.

Serge can at least space the floor for our other guys. Siakam is our only other PF. You get rid of Ibaka we are screwed. Unless we can trade him for a cheaper stretch 4/5 it's not worth moving him. Just have to reign in his minutes.. and give him lots of DNP-CD's. Basically the Wade treatment.

I guess. I'm just hoping Nurse can find a way to use him correctly and be a little more creative with him I guess And maybe his terrible inconsistent play this past season and playoffs will be motivation for him to come back much better individually.

[LJ2]

Whoa, Parker left San Antonio? really is a totally different team now

[inthepaint]

I guess. I'm just hoping Nurse can find a way to use him correctly and be a little more creative with him I guess And maybe his terrible inconsistent play this past season and playoffs will be motivation for him to come back much better individually.

I agree, both Powell & Ibaka played well below what they're capable of last year, probably the worst season of their careers, so they should rebound and improve under a new coach. They're of course on the trading block but I wouldn't go as far as attaching prospects or picks point-blank like we did for carroll to get rid of them, not with a rebuild on the horizon.

That said, I'd love to see a finals-now move for Butler, so if prospects like Poeltl/wright need to be included and norm/serge need to be in it for the math to work, I'd be more than happy with that.

[DanH]

Kings offer sheet for LaVine would start at $18.6m assuming it has max 5% raises. Interesting dynamic, if Bulls match they lose ~$9m in space as his cap hold goes up to starting salary, dropping room from $24m to $15m. So they've got 2 days to use that space in a trade.

— Nate Duncan (@NateDuncanNBA) July 7, 2018

Interesting.. Powell sort of fits nicely in that $9M space (Norm makes $9.3M this year) that they could lose if they match. Doubt they would be interested but wouldn't hurt to call them and ask.

Buy a Zach LaVine.. and you get a free Norm Powell

They don't want to use that 9M, they'll want to leverage the whole 24M. If they use the 9M, that just means after the trade they shrink to 6M in space instead of 15M. So they will want to use ALL their space before they match LaVine and go well over the cap to do so.

[saints91]

I guess. I'm just hoping Nurse can find a way to use him correctly and be a little more creative with him I guess And maybe his terrible inconsistent play this past season and playoffs will be motivation for him to come back much better individually.

Nurse has already commented he doesn’t want serg driving to the basket as much. I think they took
Him out of his comfort zone last year, it’s really not his strength. He’ll be a spot up shooter, cutter and post player. I think that’s where he’s at his best.