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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    I think a DeMar deal is more likely but could we also get Kawhi in a JV-based package? The Spurs loved him previously and he's still 25 and had a bunch of career highs last year in key advanced statistics. Averaged nearly 20-15 per 36. They might think they can get a star out of him with a more expansive role.

    Something like Valanciunas, Siakam, Wright, our 2019 1st and a pick in 2021 with some protections (risky to include)?

    EDIT:

    I think after this kind of deal you could go with this lineup:

    PG: Lowry/FVV
    SG: DeMar/Powell
    SF: Kawhi/Miles
    PF: Ibaka/OG
    C: Poeltl/(FA)

    Could close games with Lowry/DeMar/Kawhi/OG/Ibaka.
    Derozan doesn't seems to be a option 2 or 3 player, he doesn't complement others and Kawhi needs to be Option 1 player for Raps to be truly successful.
    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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    • The reason I'm suggesting that Valanciunas deal is because in order to have any chance of getting Kawhi to stay we need an anchor. The NBA is a relationship business and DeMar might be able to function as the Westbrook in the Paul George (Kawhi) situation. DeMar and Kawhi are both from California and DD's shown an ability to form really close relationships with guys in this league. That's worth considering at least when trying to deal for Leonard.

      I also don't think the fit with the two of them is really an issue. DeMar basically becomes the secondary on-ball scoring option. It'd be like what we wish we hadn't thrown away with Vince and T-Mac.

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      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
        Derozan doesn't seems to be a option 2 or 3 player, he doesn't complement others and Kawhi needs to be Option 1 player for Raps to be truly successful.
        You don't have to be an off-ball guy to be a 2nd option. Kyrie was 2nd option to LeBron, Tony Parker was 2nd option to Duncan, Kobe was second option to Shaq.

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        • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
          You don't have to be an off-ball guy to be a 2nd option. Kyrie was 2nd option to LeBron, Tony Parker was 2nd option to Duncan, Kobe was second option to Shaq.
          Kyrie is a fantastic off-ball shooter, which mitigates a lot of issues, and which DeMar isn't.

          Kobe and Parker played their primes in a different era, when switching defenses weren't as common and being an off-ball presence wasn't as required.
          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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          • Barolt wrote: View Post
            Kyrie is a fantastic off-ball shooter, which mitigates a lot of issues, and which DeMar isn't.

            Kobe and Parker played their primes in a different era, when switching defenses weren't as common and being an off-ball presence wasn't as required.
            I mean, I'd prefer if it was a Derozan deal and not jv/siakam, but at the same time I'd still be excited to see what Lowry and dd can do as 2 and 3 guys for Kawhi freaking Leonard instead of 1 and 1a guys as currently constructed
            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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            • My concern is the argument to get Kawhi to stay is a lot tougher to make without DeRozan. In DeRozan you have another star with a similar background at around the same age who's known for building excellent relationships with teammates and around the league. Lowry's never been that guy plus he's getting up there in age anyway. If Valanciunas breaks out maybe he could be but he doesn't strike me as the kind of attractive personality that DeRozan has been for us since he's been here.

              Anyway it boils down more to what the Spurs want but I think we can make a more convincing argument to keep Kawhi around with DeMar in tow as well. It's also tough from a loyalty standpoint to ship out a guy who's been here almost 10 years loyally, and then try to convince Kawhi why he should be loyal to us

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              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                We take big shots at the Knicks management team.....but they made a good pick with the Zinger...dumped Carmelo...picked ntillanka who the jury is out on but still has a chance to be a legit starter and this year they picked Knox who has shown well in Summer League. All in 3 years. It’s a low bar to be sure...but....the Suns, Magic and Kings still limbo under that.
                Also Mitchell Robinson drafted in the 2nd round looks like a steal. Knicks did very well.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                  I mean, I'd prefer if it was a Derozan deal and not jv/siakam, but at the same time I'd still be excited to see what Lowry and dd can do as 2 and 3 guys for Kawhi freaking Leonard instead of 1 and 1a guys as currently constructed
                  DeMar will always be a 1st option. He simply has no game outside of that.

                  He has no value defensively, he has no value without the ball in his hands. In order to justify DeMar's contract, he has to be the 1st option.

                  It's Kawhi and Lowry would would be the 2 and 3 for DeMar.
                  twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    My concern is the argument to get Kawhi to stay is a lot tougher to make without DeRozan. In DeRozan you have another star with a similar background at around the same age who's known for building excellent relationships with teammates and around the league. Lowry's never been that guy plus he's getting up there in age anyway. If Valanciunas breaks out maybe he could be but he doesn't strike me as the kind of attractive personality that DeRozan has been for us since he's been here.

                    Anyway it boils down more to what the Spurs want but I think we can make a more convincing argument to keep Kawhi around with DeMar in tow as well. It's also tough from a loyalty standpoint to ship out a guy who's been here almost 10 years loyally, and then try to convince Kawhi why he should be loyal to us
                    It's true. Around the league, and likely to Kawhi as well, it would be seen as Toronto doing their own super team thing with a legit 3 all stars. While many of us here have already decided it's a Derozan deal, it may be actually trying to keep him.
                    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                    • Barolt wrote: View Post
                      DeMar will always be a 1st option. He simply has no game outside of that.

                      He has no value defensively, he has no value without the ball in his hands. In order to justify DeMar's contract, he has to be the 1st option.

                      It's Kawhi and Lowry would would be the 2 and 3 for DeMar.
                      With the proper coaching and proper buy in, there'd be ways making it work. One positive is you have either Kawhi or Demar on the floor at all times, Demar is the go to guy for the 12 minutes kawhi sits. As was pointed out it worked with Kyrie, while he was a shooter he wasn't exactly a catch and shoot guy, he did iso a lot. Durant and Westbrook got to one finals nearly 2 and they played extremely my turn-your turn. It gives you more options, it staggers their minutes, and importantly it keeps Lowry even more fresh to just play catch and shoot 3s and run fast breaks off misses and turnovers.
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                        You don't have to be an off-ball guy to be a 2nd option. Kyrie was 2nd option to LeBron, Tony Parker was 2nd option to Duncan, Kobe was second option to Shaq.
                        Kobe and Parker played next to bigs. And Kobe could shoot. Parker ran the p'n'r with Duncan.

                        That's a vastly different kind of dynamic than having two high usage wings with one being a poor shooter (and solid but unspectacular playmaker).

                        If you think SAS could have interest in JV because he could break out in the right situation, we're better off moving DeMar and trying to make that situation right here for JV. JV is cheaper and younger than DeMar. And Kawhi's doesn't seem to want a George-Westbrook situation anyway. He isn't looking for a star to play next to, he's looking for a situation where he is the star other guys will want to play next to, and so I can't see Demar's presence mattering one bit, especially since it's an awkward on court fit.

                        Not to mention locking into Kawhi and DeMar locks us into two guys who will be taking up a huge chunk of payroll. So if things aren't working as well as hoped on the court, it gets harder to make changes.

                        Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
                        Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:11 PM.

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                        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          With the proper coaching and proper buy in, there'd be ways making it work. One positive is you have either Kawhi or Demar on the floor at all times, Demar is the go to guy for the 12 minutes kawhi sits. As was pointed out it worked with Kyrie, while he was a shooter he wasn't exactly a catch and shoot guy, he did iso a lot. Durant and Westbrook got to one finals nearly 2 and they played extremely my turn-your turn. It gives you more options, it staggers their minutes, and importantly it keeps Lowry even more fresh to just play catch and shoot 3s and run fast breaks off misses and turnovers.
                          It's not about how Kyrie used his possessions, or how Durant used his possessions. It's about the threat they posed without the ball in their hands.

                          In 2016-17 Kyrie wasn't used often as a spot up guy, but he didn't have to be! He had a 66.4% eFG on catch and shoot opportunities. You could not afford not to guard him. You couldn't leave him off-ball. DeMar had the best catch and shoot season of his career last year, at a 50.2% eFG. You don't have to guard him without the ball.
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • They only way I see it working with Derozan is if Derozan becomes Ginobili/6th man. I understand the off-court benefits of having Derozan but in the end what happens on court is what matters.
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                              They only way I see it working with Derozan is if Derozan becomes Ginobili/6th man. I understand the off-court benefits of having Derozan but in the end what happens on court is what matters.
                              But even Ginobili was a much better shooter and natural playmaker (ie runs the p'n'r like a PG). So they could start him off the bench but was still a great fit in closing units next to Duncan and Parker.

                              Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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                              • Hey,no offence to anybody, all ideas and opinions are valid until proven wrong. However, if Boston who on paper looked like a historically bad defensive team to everyone before the season started could end up being the best defensive team when the actual season was being played then perhaps there could be a way for Demar and Kawahi to play together, and play well together. Just takes someone smarter than us like their coaches to figure it out.

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