Everything 2018 Off Season

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Show me one that doesn't?

No, you show me one that does that isn't them just speculating about what the offer would be.

Nobody has reported on what the Raptors have actually offered except Windhorst hinting at OG having to be in the trade.

The fact that he believes OG is in the trade, combined with the fact that Masai is not an idiot and likes winning trades, indicates to me that DeMar is probably not also in the offer. Because trading both of them for Leonard would be absolutely insanely stupid.

[KeonClark]

I seriously hope no one in our FO is on board with offloading DeMar AND Anunoby for Leonard.

That's the kind of package you give up (maybe with a pick included) for Leonard if he was locked up for 4-5 years. Not for a year of him. Your two highest value assets for someone that San Antonio has to trade? Like what are we even talking about here?

We should be centering our package around one of them, not including both

IF. and a big IF..Cris Carter is talking out of his ass and Kawhi will show up and play hard, and even entertain the possibility of continuing past this year, I still like the offer of Demar and Poeltl. You get a main scorer to continue with Aldridge and the gang. Poeltl can slide in and develop into a future starter. In fact you're much better than the 48 win team that won a game against the Warriors in the playoffs. You can twist my arm into a first rounder if we need it, and depending on how the meeting with Kawhi and Uncle Dennis turned out. Demar/Poeltl, or Demar, Poeltl and a pick WITH the caveat Kawhi is somewhat excited.

If he's gonna be a little prima donna I'd still make an offer, its Ibaka and Powell. He can sit here or he can come play. His choice.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

IF. and a big IF..Cris Carter is talking out of his ass and Kawhi will show up and play hard, and even entertain the possibility of continuing past this year, I still like the offer of Demar and Poeltl. You get a main scorer to continue with Aldridge and the gang. Poeltl can slide in and develop into a future starter. In fact you're much better than the 48 win team that won a game against the Warriors in the playoffs. You can twist my arm into a first rounder if we need it, and depending on how the meeting with Kawhi and Uncle Dennis turned out. Demar/Poeltl, or Demar, Poeltl and a pick WITH the caveat Kawhi is somewhat excited.

If he's gonna be a little prima donna I'd still make an offer, its Ibaka and Powell. He can sit here or he can come play. His choice.

I've been on board with that from the start. In fact I suggested way back that we should offer DeMar, Wright, Poeltl and a 2019 1st. Only one of those assets is going to REALLY hurt to lose if Kawhi walks (DeMar). FVV can just play more and Ibaka can play more 5 with Anunoby and Siakam playing more at the 4 spot to replace Poeltl's production.

My issue like I said is giving up DeMar and Anunoby because if Kawhi leaves we have just totally screwed ourselves. We would have zero high end prospects, and no way of even trading for one (using prime DeMar as a chip when everyone has cap space), basically setting our rebuild back a full year.

[Primer]

No, you show me one that does that isn't them just speculating about what the offer would be.

Nobody has reported on what the Raptors have actually offered except Windhorst hinting at OG having to be in the trade.

The fact that he believes OG is in the trade, combined with the fact that Masai is not an idiot and likes winning trades, indicates to me that DeMar is probably not also in the offer. Because trading both of them for Leonard would be absolutely insanely stupid.

Windhosrt was talking to Lowe who said the trade could be DD + Siakiam and a 1st, to which Windhosrt replied that OG would have to be included. A far cry from what you're trying to present, and definitely just Windhosrt opinion, not inside knowledge, exactly as Lowe's statement was his opinion.

There are many many media members speculating on the trade possibilities and not a single proposed trade with Toronto doesn't have DD going to the Spurs.

[DanH]

I seriously hope no one in our FO is on board with offloading DeMar AND Anunoby for Leonard.

That's the kind of package you give up (maybe with a pick included) for Leonard if he was locked up for 4-5 years. Not for a year of him. Your two highest value assets for someone that San Antonio has to trade? Like what are we even talking about here?

We should be centering our package around one of them, not including both

LOL you are insane if you think a team trades Kawhi Leonard on a long term contract for two years of DeMar DeRozan and OG. You'd get laughed off the phone, then they'd call you back just to hang up on you again.

Stars like Kawhi get moved for lottery picks, recent lottery picks, more picks, pick swaps, and other stars. Like, all of that. And far more likely - those stars don't get moved at all unless they are in a very odd situation - like they are now. Which is why the Raptors have a chance to get him with a very low offer of DD plus a prospect plus a pick.

I'm hesitant to move OG in this deal. But to suggest that OG and DD could get you a locked in Kawhi... I have no words.

[The Great One]

I think the Raptors are the only team that are willing to give up major assets. That's why they're the "frontrunner".

Boston already said that they're not going to give up any of their top young guys for Kawhi. The Lakers are not willing to give up Ingram for Kawhi -- and from what i've read Magic Johnson is also pretty high on Kuzma and Hart.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

LOL you are insane if you think a team trades Kawhi Leonard on a long term contract for two years of DeMar DeRozan and OG. You'd get laughed off the phone, then they'd call you back just to hang up on you again.

Stars like Kawhi get moved for lottery picks, recent lottery picks, more picks, pick swaps, and other stars. Like, all of that. And far more likely - those stars don't get moved at all unless they are in a very odd situation - like they are now. Which is why the Raptors have a chance to get him with a very low offer of DD plus a prospect plus a pick.

I'm hesitant to move OG in this deal. But to suggest that OG and DD could get you a locked in Kawhi... I have no words.

Ok. This is really the last time I'm doing this with you man.

I said "That's the kind of package you give up." I didn't say that's the kind of package that lands you Leonard. I didn't say that's what the Spurs would ask for Leonard on a 4-5 year deal. I didn't even say Leonard would ever be available to trade for on a 4-5 year deal (he wouldn't). I was pointing out how much of a misuse of assets trading those two for an expiring Leonard is, and the fact that I'd only move those two for Kawhi if he was locked up (which he isn't).

Don't strawman my point. You give up OG and DD for Kawhi right now, not only have you misused and borderline wasted your best two assets, it's debatable how much you even raised the ceiling of the team for next season.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I think the Raptors are the only team that are willing to give up major assets. That's why they're the "frontrunner".

Boston already said that they're not going to give up any of their top young guys for Kawhi. The Lakers are not willing to give up Ingram for Kawhi -- and from what i've read Magic Johnson is also pretty high on Kuzma and Hart.

I'd add a little to that and say we're the only team that are willing to give up major assets.... who actually have any to give up. I'm sure Portland, Washington and LAC would like to as well they just don't have it.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

DanH you're willing to give up both DeRozan and OG to get Kawhi, yes?

[planetmars]

Have to remember where the Raps are compared to Boston and LA. Boston is full of youth and are trying to create a dynasty. Not just one championship but constant contender. Kawhi would not commit and that is a dangerous place to be if you are Ainge.

Raptors best players are veterans.. and their core has a finality to it.. so the risk is easier to swallow if you are Masai.

Given that.. and the whole weirdness of the Kawhi situation here are my ranking of our tradeable assets from hardest to trade to easiest to trade. I'd prefer obviously to give a package using the least valuable assets.. but need to probably sprinkle in one of our elite assets.

1. 2020 pick+ (we may rebuild here, and these picks are gold.. more valuable than OG or Siakam IMO).
2. OG
3. Siakam
4. Lowry (if you give up Lowry what's the point of contending?)
5. DeMar (being so closely tied with the organization.. he is probably the most likely to convince Kawhi to hang back after the season is over. I really really hate his defense though and he's a liability. Hopefully Nurse has the balls to bench him if he needs to).
6. JV (only guy that can grab boards.. if he's going we need to get Gasol back).
7. Wright (we are flush with PG's and he's up for an extension, but he's very valuable.. plus he was our 2nd or 3rd best player against the Wizards).
8. FVV (he's untradeable for 6 months so pretty much safe).
9. Miles (he's our floor spacer off the bench. Very important cog in our offense last year. But has a great "tradeable" contract)
10. Poeltl (needs a tonne of time still, and his foot fungus is going to slow his development down this summer, but is the most tradeable prospect IMO).
11. Serge (we are thin at PF, and he can space the floor. Can also play C, and we need C's too).
12. 2019 pick (will be in the high 20's but would be second year in a row without a first round pick.. so some bad optics here)
13. Powell (just a bad fit, and a terrible contract).
14. Richardson (just cap ballast really).

Serge+Poeltl+2019 pick is my starting asking price. And would try to work off of that.

Don't forget Masai is a Jedi. Buford/Pops are amazing, but they've never had to deal with Masai before. I still have no idea how he pulled off that Vasquez trade to not just get cap space, but two draft picks (one first rounder) as well.

The Bargnani trade was magical for sure.. but that Vasquez trade was highway robbery. I mean that happened a year *after* the Bargnani trade.

[DanH]

Ok. This is really the last time I'm doing this with you man.

I said "That's the kind of package you give up." I didn't say that's the kind of package that lands you Leonard. I didn't say that's what the Spurs would ask for Leonard on a 4-5 year deal. I didn't even say Leonard would ever be available to trade for on a 4-5 year deal (he wouldn't). I was pointing out how much of a misuse of assets trading those two for an expiring Leonard is, and the fact that I'd only move those two for Kawhi if he was locked up (which he isn't).

Don't strawman my point. You give up OG and DD for Kawhi right now, not only have you misused and borderline wasted your best two assets, it's debatable how much you even raised the ceiling of the team for next season.

You give up DD and OG for a chance at having a top 5 player long term, with one year of that top 5 player giving you a better shot in your competitive window than you would have in the two coming years combined. There is literally no better return you could get for those two.

I hesitate to include OG - the risk becomes real when he is outgoing. But the risk is probably still worth it. Now a package of DD, OG, another prospect, and a 1st... Not sure of that one. Wouldn't be super angry about it though - more of a coin toss.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You give up DD and OG for a chance at having a top 5 player long term, with one year of that top 5 player giving you a better shot in your competitive window than you would have in the two coming years combined. There is literally no better return you could get for those two.

I hesitate to include OG - the risk becomes real when he is outgoing. But the risk is probably still worth it. Now a package of DD, OG, another prospect, and a 1st... Not sure of that one. Wouldn't be super angry about it though - more of a coin toss.

I know you're willing to include OG and DeMar, that's not really news.

You kind of just totally dodged the fact that you ripped me in your previous post based on a complete misread and misinterpretation of what I wrote, but whatever floats your boat man. I'm putting you on ignore at this point.

[DanH]

DanH you're willing to give up both DeRozan and OG to get Kawhi, yes?

Yeah, I think so. I'd jump through hoops trying to get SA to accept different prospects instead, but if push came to shove, yeah.

[planetmars]

I'd add a little to that and say we're the only team that are willing to give up major assets.... who actually have any to give up. I'm sure Portland, Washington and LAC would like to as well they just don't have it.

Would SA want to trade Kawhi within the conference.. even if a team like Portland or LAC could put a better package together (say Portland offers McCollum and/or LAC offers Harris with Shai or something).. Pops/Buford may prefer to keep him away from the West for a year. Just like Indiana wanted to do with George.

Washington is an interesting one.. Maybe they'd swap Porter and their 2019 pick for Kawhi? And if Kawhi leaves they are out from Porter's big contract saving them lots of future cap space?

[DanH]

I know you're willing to include OG and DeMar, that's not really news.

You kind of just totally dodged the fact that you ripped me in your previous post based on a complete misread and misinterpretation of what I wrote, but whatever floats your boat man. I'm putting you on ignore at this point.

Well on the off chance you see this... Your previous post was meaningless in the way you meant it - or at the least a dramatic misrepresentation of your point. To say that you'd send out DD and OG for a locked in Kawhi, when in reality you mean you would actually send them out for a great deal less than that (considering that trade would never happen) is a very silly thing to say.

Like if you suggested trading Poeltl for Pau Gasol. And I say, no, that's silly. You give up Poeltl in a trade for Anthony Davis. See how dumb that is?