Everything 2018 Off Season

[Jclaw]

Yep, and beyond the legacy thing, he’s also currently an excellent offensive player who carries a huge scoring load on the current roster that would be sorely missed when both he and Leonard are gone. He also expires in 2years, so if you hate him he’s worth a decent return on the trade market next year. Without a Leonard extension, you’re basically saying Derozan isn’t worth anything at all.

I'm still undecided but I think the thing that it's worth is building a team that can win the East this year and see what happens in the finals. Maybe running back our 59 win team could do the same thing. Which is the bigger risk? I certainly don't know.

[thead]

Ehh, suggesting DeRozan can be the centrepiece that outbids other teams for an ALL-NBA player like Kawhi is hardly saying DeRozan isn't worth anything at all.

It kinda does from a culture, respect, reputational aspect.

His trade value is his trade value so I know what you are saying though

[thead]

I'm still undecided but I think the thing that it's worth is building a team that can win the East this year and see what happens in the finals. Maybe running back our 59 win team could do the same thing. Which is the bigger risk? I certainly don't know.

If we run back with our current squad the following rotation players will come back significantly better

Siakam, Poeltl, Wright, VanVleet, OG

the following players will likely hold serve

Lowry, Miles,

the following players should improve incrementally

Valanciunas, DeRozan.

That squad could escape the east but I'm not betting on it. I really do think we need to make SOME kind of move.

edit: Ibaka could hold serve, decline or get better incrementally if used correctly

[jimmie]

It kinda does from a culture, respect, reputational aspect.

His trade value is his trade value so I know what you are saying though

If you go into it thinking/knowing you’re only getting one year of Kawhi, then yes, that’s a massive slap in the face and devaluation of a player like Derozan.

Maybe I’ve just watched this team for so long that I can’t overlook what this version of it has done over the past 5 years. And maybe that makes me a bit more patient. I can’t rationalize the idea that adding Kawhi Leonard and subtracting Derozan or OG and more for no more guarantee than one year of a true league MVP player, with all the baggage around that player, and the hope of a ceiling that the current roster can already reach on their own if internal development curves hold. But my position begins with the idea that the chance Kawhi re-signs is about 3%. If I thought it was 90+, things would change.

[The Great One]

The Raptors have made a compelling offer for Kawhi Leonard, per report. https://t.co/MNJaojkgB1 pic.twitter.com/kNxuYumMba

— Yahoo Sports NBA (@YahooSportsNBA) July 18, 2018

[Barolt]

Kawhi outplayed the Warriors for a full half, nearly by himself, in a playoff game the last time he was fully healthy.

I feel like we're massively underplaying just how great he is and just how incredible an opportunity this is.

[thead]

Kawhi outplayed the Warriors for a full half, nearly by himself, in a playoff game the last time he was fully healthy.

I feel like we're massively underplaying just how great he is and just how incredible an opportunity this is.

If healthy and if he extended, I would trade the moon for him. I know how good he is.

I may be one of the few that don't want to sacrifice a tonne of assets, a cultural shift, and more years in the wilderness if he walks.

[golden]

Kawhi outplayed the Warriors for a full half, nearly by himself, in a playoff game the last time he was fully healthy.

I feel like we're massively underplaying just how great he is and just how incredible an opportunity this is.

Nobody's massively undervaluing Kawhi... he's the second best player in the league, when healthy and motivated. The problem here is that we have no idea if he'll even play for Raptors after we've blown those keys assets. That's the risk-reward that's being debated here, not how good Kawhi is. It really doesn't matter how talented anybody is, if they decide they don't want to use those talents for us. This is "potentially" a great opportunity, but with huge caveats out the ying-yang.

[Barolt]

Nobody's massively undervaluing Kawhi... he's the second best player in the league, when healthy and motivated. The problem here is that we have no idea if he'll even play for Raptors after we've blown those keys assets. That's the risk-reward that's being debated here, not how good Kawhi is. It really doesn't matter how talented anybody is, if they decide they don't want to use those talents for us. This is "potentially" a great opportunity, but with huge caveats out the ying-yang.

I actually don't see "him not playing" as a real risk. He's a free agent next summer, he wants to get paid, the best path to that is showing how dominant he can still be. I think if the Raptors trade for him he'll play and he'll play in earnest.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Nobody's massively undervaluing Kawhi... he's the second best player in the league, when healthy and motivated. The problem here is that we have no idea if he'll even play for Raptors after we've blown those keys assets. That's the risk-reward that's being debated here, not how good Kawhi is. It really doesn't matter how talented anybody is, if they decide they don't want to use those talents for us. This is "potentially" a great opportunity, but with huge caveats out the ying-yang.

Pretty much. If this was a guaranteed trade for a healthy Kawhi who'd re-sign, I'd put the whole damn roster in the deal. It's not. We don't even know if Kawhi will be healthy, and if he's healthy if he'll even play or give maximum effort (some might say he will since it's a contract year, but it's pretty clear the Lakers at least will pay him his money regardless). As a result of all that, we don't know that getting Kawhi even guarantees us being the top team in the east next season, and if we get him and don't win the east, it's going to be really bad because he almost definitely won't stay, and if we've traded DeMar and OG for him we'll have really set ourselves back in terms of a rebuild (best prospect gone and no DeMar trade to make to get more assets to kick-start a rebuild).

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I actually don't see "him not playing" as a real risk. He's a free agent next summer, he wants to get paid, the best path to that is showing how dominant he can still be. I think if the Raptors trade for him he'll play and he'll play in earnest.

That's not a good argument, at all. I just explained it, but even if Kawhi sits out the entirety of next season, the Lakers will still max him if that's where he wants to be (and all indications are that is the case).

I think you're actually either overvaluing Kawhi (not Kawhi at his best but the Kawhi --- with all the risks attached --- that we'd be getting in this trade) or undervaluing DeRozan in your analysis.

[Barolt]

That's not a good argument, at all. I just explained it, but even if Kawhi sits out the entirety of next season, the Lakers will still max him if that's where he wants to be (and all indications are that is the case).

I think you're actually either overvaluing Kawhi (not Kawhi at his best but the Kawhi --- with all the risks attached --- that we'd be getting in this trade) or undervaluing DeRozan in your analysis.

I don't think he gets a max after sitting out two seasons. I don't see that happening, and it's a huge risk.

Boogie just signed for $5 million coming off an injury. Teams are tentative with hurt guys, and it's a huge free agent class next summer with not a ton of cap space.

[white men can't jump]

If healthy and if he extended, I would trade the moon for him. I know how good he is.

I may be one of the few that don't want to sacrifice a tonne of assets, a cultural shift, and more years in the wilderness if he walks.

Ok, well if we bring the same group back next year, what is progress? Is it Conf Finals? NBA Finals? Even if we make the finals, if we get obliterated by the Warriors in 4, is it really progress?

Ibaka, Lowry, Miles, FVV and possibly JV (if he opts in) will be entering the final year of their deals after next season. Siakam and Poeltl will be entering the last year of their rookie deals. DeMar would be entering a pre-option year where he could potentially become a free agent in 2 years as well. If we make no obvious progress, do you think Masai brings the gang back and risks losing almost the entire rotation in free agency for nothing? Or do you think he starts cashing in pieces? And if he starts cashing in pieces, do you think he can turn over the roster in a way that builds around DeMar for the better?

This is the time to take a risk. Whether that's Kawhi or Butler, or some more random unexpected move.

[thead]

That's not a good argument, at all

I think Barolt has a pretty strong argument actually. He has every incentive to prove his health and dominance. I don't think anyone maxes him if he sits out this year or plays on one leg.

[golden]

I actually don't see "him not playing" as a real risk. He's a free agent next summer, he wants to get paid, the best path to that is showing how dominant he can still be. I think if the Raptors trade for him he'll play and he'll play in earnest.

Kawhi already has one season under his belt of "not playing" for the Spurs, so I don't see why we should be so confident he'll want to come freeze his butt off up North, when he and his uncle have made it clear he only wants to play for the Lakers. Basically, he's thumbing his nose at the CBA and acting like he's an unrestricted free agent a year before he's eligible. This is not a normal pending free agent situation, by any stretch of the imagination.