Everything 2018 Off Season

[Scraptor]

It's not even getting lost in advanced stats, it's not looking at them properly.

A lot of these guys just throw usage and volume completely out of the window.

Yeah there's such a big difference in being a guy who is the focus of the other team's defense and being a tertiary option who doesn't have to initiate the offense. Not to mention that it takes elite offensive skills to break down your man in iso situations.

DeMar was 84th percentile in iso situations last year. And he was only assisted on 32% of his overall buckets.
Porter was 32nd percentile in isos, and was assisted on 72% of his buckets.
Middleton was 56th percentile in isos, and was assisted on 53% of his buckets.
Brown was 75th percentile in isos, and was assisted on 68% of his buckets.

I get that they're all better defenders than DeMar, but there is real value in being the lead guy who absorbs all the attention of the defense.

[golden]

The Toronto Raptors and free agent forward Eric Moreland have agreed to a one-year, partially guaranteed deal, a league source told The Athletic.

— Michael Scotto (@MikeAScotto) September 18, 2018

Masai satisfies his wingspan fetish (supposedly 7-4).

[planetmars]

DeRozan was actually really good last year.. but his defense was terrible. And if they took that into equation than there should never be a ranking where DeMar is behind Devin Booker yet he is in this ESPN ranking.

So looks like JV missed the top 100 (no way he's in the top 30). But they got OG, Fred and Green. I would have JV over all three. Goes to show you what his value is like in the media.

[KeonClark]

DeRozan was actually really good last year.. but his defense was terrible. And if they took that into equation than there should never be a ranking where DeMar is behind Devin Booker yet he is in this ESPN ranking.

So looks like JV missed the top 100 (no way he's in the top 30). But they got OG, Fred and Green. I would have JV over all three. Goes to show you what his value is like in the media.

Jv was like 65 for Sports illustrated and ranked as our 3rd best player. Ibaka was next then fred with no mention of og and green. Which just goes to show as I said in the Kawhi thread it's basically a crap shoot from 9 to 30, and an ever bigger crapshoot from 40 to 100

[The Great One]

Elton Brand is the new GM of the Sixers.

[KeonClark]

Elton Brand is the new GM of the Sixers.

This Sixers ownership group is a joke. Just watch, in 3 years theyll he right back on that treadmill that they tore everything down and trusted hinkie to do, and then bailed too early from public/nba pressure.

Make your fans sit thru 3 years of a historically bad team only to give up on "the process" 85% of the way thru.

[DerozansSpurs]

Stop the madness. Do we have to say all the same shit about Otto Porter and Khris Middleton again?

Otto Porter is great at what he does in his role. Great defender who's excellent off the ball as a cutter and spot-up shooter. He's a great fit next to John Wall, a ball-dominant drive-and-kick guard who isn't a credible shooter and can't play off the ball. I don't blame anyone for wanting to take Otto Porter over DeMar DeRozan, because Otto Porter fulfills his role as a complimentary player far better than DeMar DeRozan does as a primary player.

On the other hand, Khris Middleton is overrated. he's like a bootlegged version of Paul George (who himself is also overrated, although in a different way). And unlike Paul George, he's not remarkably amazing or anything. His defense has also been regressing for a while now, especially since his hamstring injury from 2016.

There are not 38 better basketball players than DeMar DeRozan.

However, DeMar DeRozan isn't a top 20 player at all, arguably not even top 30.

This is what happens when we get lost in advanced stats. We forget that's theres a small group of personnel able to score 25 a night (and assist on 5) fairl efficiently for a winning team.

55.5% TS is not "fairl efficiently", it's a hair above average (55.2% TS).

Scoring points on average or bad efficiency is one of the less impactful parts of basketball. Taking 19 shots to score 20 points doesn't help your team as much as taking 14 shots to score 20 points does, because it consumes more possessions.

Yeah there's such a big difference in being a guy who is the focus of the other team's defense

DeRozan isn't particularly amazing or special as a first option.

and being a tertiary option who doesn't have to initiate the offense.

Meanwhile, guys like Porter are very good at being third options.

Not to mention that it takes elite offensive skills to break down your man in iso situations.

DeRozan doesn't have those elite offensive skills, though.

• His first step isn't amazing, so he can't blow by defenders easily.
• His shooting isn't amazing either, so defenders sag off of him. He's not a spot up threat.
• He's not even elite from mid-range for his career, he just takes a lot of mid-range attempts.
• His playmaking has improved a ton, but it's still nothing truly incredible.
• He's not amazing at dribbling either. (Nowhere near someone like Harden or Irving, who use their handles a lot to break down defenders.)

What he is elite at is getting to the line (using pump fakes), but plenty of trips to the line disappear in the playoffs. Mostly because of referees letting guys play, and also because of coaches like Tyronn Lue who discipline their players for biting on pump fakes.

I get that they're all better defenders than DeMar, but there is real value in being the lead guy who absorbs all the attention of the defense.

Depending on who you are, there's definitely value in being a first option, but like I said earlier, DeRozan isn't particularly amazing or special as a first option. Not so amazing or special that he can get away with his other flaws, such as:

• terrible defense despite being hidden on the worst offensive guard/swingman: bad effort, getting lost off ball, not getting into a stance, lazily reaching into assignments, etc.
• being ball-dominant
• inability to shoot from long range
• inability to play off the ball
• decision making and awareness that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired (like stepping on the line so damn much or taking 2s down three at the end when you should take a 3 instead)
• inability to run a competent and smooth offense that doesn't devolve into iso ball

Just way too many holes in his game that it erases some of whatever he's good at. Which sucks because there are some great things about him. Perhaps the Spurs organization can help DeRozan patch up some of the holes in his game - they'll have to pull that kind of thing off if they want to continue that insane playoff streak.

DeRozan was actually really good last year.. but his defense was terrible.

Last season was his best season by far.

Especially the first half of last season. It didn't last long though.

And if they took that into equation than there should never be a ranking where DeMar is behind Devin Booker yet he is in this ESPN ranking.

Wait, what? Devin Booker is rated that high? That has to be a joke, right?

This Sixers ownership group is a joke. Just watch, in 3 years theyll he right back on that treadmill that they tore everything down and trusted hinkie to do, and then bailed too early from public/nba pressure.

Make your fans sit thru 3 years of a historically bad team only to give up on "the process" 85% of the way thru.

It's too bad Colangelo already did his damage to the Sixers. Gave up a future lottery pick and the 3rd pick (Tatum) so that they could acquire Fultz, who has provided zero value to them so far.

[Scraptor]

^^I'm too tired of DeRozan debates to get to deep into this but I'll point out that:

-DeRozan had a better free throw draw rate than LeBron and KD and was 7th in the NBA in FTA/g. Not having an elite first step is okay when you can be crafty enough to use footwork to your advantage, like Paul Pierce did.

-DeRozan had a higher assist % than Jrue Holiday, Giannis, Beal, Butler, Oladipo, and Middleton

-DeRozan had a higher PPP in isos than LeBron, Beal, McCollum, George, and Butler

-DeRozan put up 27/3/5 in the playoffs in a series against Porter, who put up 10/5/2. Porter may have been hampered by nagging injuries but his playoff average is 10ppg. And we won that series btw.

The problem is that it's so easy to say wow Otto Porter is so efficient on 8 shots a game, but ultimately he's never had to deal with carrying an offense on his back.

DeRozan is not a superstar on offense, but you can cover his defense more easily with a good scheme than you could ask Porter to create as much offense as DeRozan did.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Otto Porter is great at what he does in his role. Great defender who's excellent off the ball as a cutter and spot-up shooter. He's a great fit next to John Wall, a ball-dominant drive-and-kick guard who isn't a credible shooter and can't play off the ball. I don't blame anyone for wanting to take Otto Porter over DeMar DeRozan, because Otto Porter fulfills his role as a complimentary player far better than DeMar DeRozan does as a primary player.

On the other hand, Khris Middleton is overrated. he's like a bootlegged version of Paul George (who himself is also overrated, although in a different way). And unlike Paul George, he's not remarkably amazing or anything. His defense has also been regressing for a while now, especially since his hamstring injury from 2016.



However, DeMar DeRozan isn't a top 20 player at all, arguably not even top 30.



55.5% TS is not "fairl efficiently", it's a hair above average (55.2% TS).

Scoring points on average or bad efficiency is one of the less impactful parts of basketball. Taking 19 shots to score 20 points doesn't help your team as much as taking 14 shots to score 20 points does, because it consumes more possessions.



DeRozan isn't particularly amazing or special as a first option.



Meanwhile, guys like Porter are very good at being third options.



DeRozan doesn't have those elite offensive skills, though.

• His first step isn't amazing, so he can't blow by defenders easily.
• His shooting isn't amazing either, so defenders sag off of him. He's not a spot up threat.
• He's not even elite from mid-range for his career, he just takes a lot of mid-range attempts.
• His playmaking has improved a ton, but it's still nothing truly incredible.
• He's not amazing at dribbling either. (Nowhere near someone like Harden or Irving, who use their handles a lot to break down defenders.)

What he is elite at is getting to the line (using pump fakes), but plenty of trips to the line disappear in the playoffs. Mostly because of referees letting guys play, and also because of coaches like Tyronn Lue who discipline their players for biting on pump fakes.



Depending on who you are, there's definitely value in being a first option, but like I said earlier, DeRozan isn't particularly amazing or special as a first option. Not so amazing or special that he can get away with his other flaws, such as:

• terrible defense despite being hidden on the worst offensive guard/swingman: bad effort, getting lost off ball, not getting into a stance, lazily reaching into assignments, etc.
• being ball-dominant
• inability to shoot from long range
• inability to play off the ball
• decision making and awareness that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired (like stepping on the line so damn much or taking 2s down three at the end when you should take a 3 instead)
• inability to run a competent and smooth offense that doesn't devolve into iso ball

Just way too many holes in his game that it erases some of whatever he's good at. Which sucks because there are some great things about him. Perhaps the Spurs organization can help DeRozan patch up some of the holes in his game - they'll have to pull that kind of thing off if they want to continue that insane playoff streak.



Last season was his best season by far.

Especially the first half of last season. It didn't last long though.



Wait, what? Devin Booker is rated that high? That has to be a joke, right?



It's too bad Colangelo already did his damage to the Sixers. Gave up a future lottery pick and the 3rd pick (Tatum) so that they could acquire Fultz, who has provided zero value to them so far.

damn you went all out..


I will admit that as a derozan fan I am also realistic. Derozan was good but he wasn't great and it wasn't for lack of off season work. I think his jumper would never have the mechanics to be consistent.


I think if you look at what he did as elite... it would be his footwork. his footwork was unmatched... that said most of what you said is true....

[KeonClark]

damn you went all out..


I will admit that as a derozan fan I am also realistic. Derozan was good but he wasn't great and it wasn't for lack of off season work. I think his jumper would never have the mechanics to be consistent.


I think if you look at what he did as elite... it would be his footwork. his footwork was unmatched... that said most of what you said is true....

He even mocked my typo lol. Responded to various people on various topics


That was like hit em up by 2pac in a post

[TrueTorontoFan]

He even mocked my typo lol. Responded to various people on various topics


That was like hit em up by 2pac in a post

lol well said

[The Great One]

Yooooo

Jimmy Butler has requested a trade from the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski. Butler has given Minnesota a list of one-to-three teams with whom he's open to signing extension, in anticipation of trade.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) September 19, 2018

[S.R.]

Yooooo

Jimmy Butler has requested a trade from the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski. Butler has given Minnesota a list of one-to-three teams with whom he's open to signing extension, in anticipation of trade.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) September 19, 2018

[MixxAOR]

On second thougt adding Delon is too much. Ibaka + cash + protected second rounder take it or leave it

[The Great One]

Towns must be a bad teammate for Jimmy to request a trade after ONE year. Watching Towns in the playoffs last year, i thought he was very diva-ish.