Everything 2018 Off Season

[rocwell]

And?

?

[rocwell]

It doesn't mean anything beyond the guy has long arms. Certainly isn't a predictor of NBA success.

Duh. Length is an advantage, that's all. It's just fascinating to see another human with 7'10 wingspan(and 1.15 ape index). Insane.

[Hotshot]

Sure, it would be good if they could buy a pick. But especially late in the 2nd round (when picks tend to be for sale), a lot of agents are warning teams against drafting players (as FVV's did) so they can try their luck as an undrafted free agent with 30 teams to negotiate with. Masai already proved with FVV that he can land that sort of talent.

If they can get into the top half of the second round, that's different, but those picks usually move for assets rather than cash. So I'm a little indifferent on the buy-a-pick front. I am interested to see what we can do in trade though.

Well surely throwing Norm for a high 2nd rounder before his contract kicks in should be able to net a pick.

[Barolt]

"The growing consensus among NBA decision-makers” is that the Kings and Hawks "are likely to pass” on Doncic "in favor of American frontcourt players,” per @DraftExpress. https://t.co/isDNXkFJej

— Bryan Toporek (@btoporek) May 20, 2018

It's starting to look like there is a real chance Doncic is sitting there at the #4 pick.

[Hotshot]

"The growing consensus among NBA decision-makers” is that the Kings and Hawks "are likely to pass” on Doncic "in favor of American frontcourt players,” per @DraftExpress. https://t.co/isDNXkFJej

— Bryan Toporek (@btoporek) May 20, 2018

It's starting to look like there is a real chance Doncic is sitting there at the #4 pick.

I don't believe it, yes with Atlanta but not with the Kings where Vlade and Peja are running the show.

[Barolt]

I don't believe it, yes with Atlanta but not with the Kings where Vlade and Peja are running the show.

Kings drafting too many frontcourt players sounds EXACTLY like the Kings, to be honest.

[Hotshot]

Kings drafting too many frontcourt players sounds EXACTLY like the Kings, to be honest.

And lets not forget the Kings owner is the one that has the final say on everything. I do recall that part of the trade to bring Buddy Hield with a package from N.O for D.Cousins was because the Kings owner believed Hield would become as good as Stephen Curry.

This is why they have been bad for so long.

[Mindlessness]

In my opinion, if Doncic is potentially available after the first 3 picks and that MEM trade for the 4 + Parsons deal is available as well.

I do it 10/10 times.

[inthepaint]

I know if Doncic is for SURE available at #4 is huge, but all-in-all here's how I look at this Parsons trade that's been floating around:

in 2017, the NETS:
-Receive: An albatross contract (Carroll) and TWO draft picks
-Send out: Justin Hamilton (no longer an NBA player)

in 2018, the RAPTORS (as suggested):
-Receive: An albatross contract (Parsons) and ONE draft pick
-Send out: Demar Derozan (one of the top players in franchise history, multiple times all-star, 2018 MVP ladder player)

Another way to look at is this:
Early 2017 we have: An albatross contract (Carroll) and two picks
Early 2018 we have: An albatross contract (Parsons) and one pick (except that now we also send out one of the best players we've ever had in the wind)

I know the point here is that the pick is high (#4), but that is extremely tough to swallow for me, even if Doncic was available at #4 for sure (which he isn't). Demar deserves better. He should be able to fetch a much better return than this Parsons trade, imo.

[Barolt]

I know if Doncic is for SURE available at #4 is huge, but all-in-all here's how I look at this Parsons trade that's been floating around:

in 2017, the NETS:
-Receive: An albatross contract (Carroll) and TWO draft picks
-Send out: Justin Hamilton (no longer an NBA player)

in 2018, the RAPTORS (as suggested):
-Receive: An albatross contract (Parsons) and ONE draft pick
-Send out: Demar Derozan (one of the top players in franchise history, multiple times all-star, 2018 MVP ladder player)

Another way to look at is this:
Early 2017 we have: An albatross contract (Carroll) and two picks
Early 2018 we have: An albatross contract (Parsons) and one pick (except that now we also send out one of the best players we've ever had in the wind)

I know the point here is that the pick is high (#4), but that is extremely tough to swallow for me, even if Doncic was available at #4 for sure (which he isn't). Demar deserves better. He should be able to fetch a much better return than this Parsons trade, imo.

There is a big difference between trading for a late 1st and a 2nd round pick and trading for a high lottery pick.

[inthepaint]

There is a big difference between trading for a late 1st and a 2nd round pick and trading for a high lottery pick.

Yes, there is. This difference must be equivalent to the difference in value between Justin Hamilton and Demar Derozan as players for it to make sense.

Otherwise the NETS trade was either one of the best deals for the nets ever, or this one is one of the worst for us ever.

[DanH]

Yes, there is. This difference must be equivalent to the difference in value between Justin Hamilton and Demar Derozan as players for it to make sense.

Otherwise the NETS trade was either one of the best deals for the nets ever, or this one is one of the worst for us ever.

Well yeah, that's about the difference in value. Correct.

Like literally no comparison on the draft pick values there. Not remotely.

[white men can't jump]

I know if Doncic is for SURE available at #4 is huge, but all-in-all here's how I look at this Parsons trade that's been floating around:

in 2017, the NETS:
-Receive: An albatross contract (Carroll) and TWO draft picks
-Send out: Justin Hamilton (no longer an NBA player)

in 2018, the RAPTORS (as suggested):
-Receive: An albatross contract (Parsons) and ONE draft pick
-Send out: Demar Derozan (one of the top players in franchise history, multiple times all-star, 2018 MVP ladder player)

Another way to look at is this:
Early 2017 we have: An albatross contract (Carroll) and two picks
Early 2018 we have: An albatross contract (Parsons) and one pick (except that now we also send out one of the best players we've ever had in the wind)

I know the point here is that the pick is high (#4), but that is extremely tough to swallow for me, even if Doncic was available at #4 for sure (which he isn't). Demar deserves better. He should be able to fetch a much better return than this Parsons trade, imo.

If Masai believes he can get a potential all-star or superstar who can raise the ceiling of this team in the long-term, the #4 pick is totally worth swallowing Parsons' horrid contract.

Ray Allen was a far more valuable player than DeMar. About the same talent tier, but while both are flawed #1 options, Allen is a far superior 2nd/3rd best player because he can play with anybody with his off-ball value. When he got traded from Seattle to the Celtics, the deal was this:

Ray Allen + Glen Davis (just drafted at 35) for Delonte West + Wally Szczerbiak + Jeff Green (5th pick)

The trade was basically Ray Allen for the 5th pick, which they used on Jeff Green. Szczerbiak's deal was bad at the time, just like Parsons' deal is now. He was broken down from injuries and never really recovered, also what could very well end up being the case for Parsons.

The one key difference between situations is Seattle was going to tank. Masai doesn't seem like the type to go for that, but if he was looking for a "DeMar for high lottery pick" trade, it's very unlikely that can happen without some sort of shitty contract coming back. And Parsons' deal has just 2 seasons left after this one, just like Serge and Lowry, so if he doesn't like what he sees next year, he will have 3 massive expiring deals going into 2019's offseason (assuming he doesn't unload Serge and Lowry before that if he's thinking of making bigger changes over the long-term).

I could see Masai going young without explicitly trying to tank. We already have a lot of good young players in their early-mid 20s. If he can turn DeMar, Lowry and Ibaka into a few quality young assets, and sprinkle those in with the current group, they may not be able to tank for a superstar but might be able to trade for one within the next 2-3 years. And the young group might be good enough to compete for the playoffs, and squeak in as a lower seed (which is basically how this current older team looks most playoff series despite being a high seed). You never know who could become available, and there are young superstars like Davis and Antetokounmpo in situations that could very soon start to feel like "treadmill" teams to these guys and they may want out.

Another way to look at trading DeMar is also doing it before his contract basically becomes an "albatross contract". Now it will never be as bad as Carroll or Parsons, and you'll always be able to get at least some kind of value for him, but if he keeps looking like a player who consistently fails to elevate his play in the playoffs then teams won't want to trade high lottery picks for him anymore. If you wait, you may not ever get as good a chance to turn him into a piece(s) that can up the ceiling of the team long-term.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Otherwise the NETS trade was either one of the best deals for the nets ever, or this one is one of the worst for us ever.

Perhaps you forget how terrible Demarre Carrol was?
Regardless—they are two separate trades in two different years, with two different circumstances surrounding the team. And, the Raps pick to Brooklynn is #29.

[inthepaint]

Well yeah, that's about the difference in value. Correct.

Like literally no comparison on the draft pick values there. Not remotely.

That's fair. If we continue to follow that train of thought and assume Justin Hamilton's value is zero and the two picks we gave away to get rid of an albatross are non-zero in value, then this #4 pick (whether it's Doncic or not) that comes with its own albatross must be better than the combined value of Derozan, a late 1st and a 2nd.

This player, whoever he may be, needs to be more impactful on this franchise than Demar DeRozan, a late first, and a second combined. I personally think the odds of that happening are low on this particular draft, even if it's a #4, but for those who believe there's good chance that's the case, then yeah, that trade makes sense.