Everything 2018 Off Season

[Hotshot]

So what you're saying is Masai would rather make them slowly, and also slowly fall in the win column, basically becoming more and more of a treadmill team, which is exactly what he said he didn't want this team to be?

He could start having to worry about his own job if this is the approach he takes.

Do you actually believe everything Masai tells the public?! Not wanting the team to become a treadmill team has nothing to do with worrying about his job security. This isn't the desired outcome but sometimes it happens. As far as I'm concerned the Raptors have been treadmilling in the upper Eastern Conference for the past 3 seasons without a significant improvement in the playoffs.

As far as Toronto shareholders owners are concerned Masai is doing a good job because the arena is constantly filling up. That's the bottom line is convincing fans to spend money on this team is the desired outcome for MLSE.

[white men can't jump]

Do you actually believe everything Masai tells the public?! Not wanting the team to become a treadmill team has nothing to do with worrying about his job security. This isn't the desired outcome but sometimes it happens. As far as I'm concerned the Raptors have been treadmilling in the upper Eastern Conference for the past 3 seasons without a significant improvement in the playoffs.

As far as Toronto shareholders owners are concerned Masai is doing a good job because the arena is constantly filling up. That's the bottom line is convincing fans to spend money on this team is the desired outcome for MLSE.

It's not about believing everything Masai says to the public, it's about him being held accountable for everything he says to the public. That's how public relations work. Every time someone speaks out publicly, whether it's in sports, business or politics, they are going to be held responsible for how things play out relative to their statements. So every time you say something and the opposite outcome happens, you lose clout and risk your position.

Again, the team can still sell a competitive team even if they start to make changes. Fan confidence in the team is probably the lowest it's been since they first made the playoffs with this core. We are literally the biggest joke in the NBA, and in a league with the Sacramento Kings and New York Knicks that's truly embarrassing. Making sure this team is best positioned to get better than what they are now is Masai's job, as well as making money, and getting better will make the team more money in the long run. At this point it's near-impossible to envision that while keeping this core in place, and waiting until this "plays out" means likely not getting long-term value for them, and leading to a "tanking" period where MLSE will sell far fewer tickets and could last several years.

[Demographic Shift]

It's not about believing everything Masai says to the public, it's about him being held accountable for everything he says to the public. That's how public relations work. Every time someone speaks out publicly, whether it's in sports, business or politics, they are going to be held responsible for how things play out relative to their statements. So every time you say something and the opposite outcome happens, you lose clout and risk your position.

Again, the team can still sell a competitive team even if they start to make changes. Fan confidence in the team is probably the lowest it's been since they first made the playoffs with this core. We are literally the biggest joke in the NBA, and in a league with the Sacramento Kings and New York Knicks that's truly embarrassing. Making sure this team is best positioned to get better than what they are now is Masai's job, as well as making money, and getting better will make the team more money in the long run. At this point it's near-impossible to envision that while keeping this core in place, and waiting until this "plays out" means likely not getting long-term value for them, and leading to a "tanking" period where MLSE will sell far fewer tickets and could last several years.

It was an epic bed shitting and a blown opportunity that will sting for a long time..... but no way.... no how... not today or tomorrow or next week or next year will the Raps and MLSE ever be a bigger punch line than the Knicks and Kings as the pre eminent bumblers of the NBA.

[Demographic Shift]

Not to belittle the Euroleague MVP award, but looking at past winners...... this ain't exactly a murderer's row:

19.. he did this at 19. Against the men.
This stands out because in effect Doncic is fighting a few weight classes up...

To me anyway... its a little ethnocentric to brush this off because its not the NCAA. Odds are pretty good the Euroleague champ crushes and powders any one of the final four teams by 20 or more points in any given year each and every time.. .and Doncic plays in that league..

[inthepaint]

The odds are always low. The odds are not the point for this team anymore.

This team has hit a glass ceiling. If they are happy with their current level of success (and they may be, there's a lot to like there - but all signs point to them not being happy), they should just keep DeMar in the fold and hope the coaching improvement is enough.

If the team cares about breaking through that glass ceiling (again, all signs point to yes) they will need to make a risky move.

The potential value of a top 5 pick is much higher than the expected value of DD, 29th and 40th (for the record the expected value of those picks is close to zero). And that's all that matters in this context.

...

I disagree the value of a late first and a second is close to zero. Siakam and FVV for example are great pieces with lots of room to grow - Siakam grew his game a lot this year, and FVV is up for 6th man of the year. They're not even first rounders. But sure, the odds of finding better talent are better at the higher picks. So yeah, odds do matter, whether is the odds of finding a FVV undrafted, or the odds of getting a Kyrie Irving on top of the draft instead of Anthony Bennett. They both could happen.

In comparison to other teams, The raptors front office have been very good in maximizing talent and getting the most of lower picks, including Delon, norm (before he crapped out this season), Siakam and FVV. They have a solid program to develop players well, and close the gap between higher picks and lower picks. Player development has been in the forefront for the Raptors. The value of these players is not close to zero.

As for DD, someone pointed out on the Derozan thread the Blake Griffin trade. Griffin and DD being somewhat similar in the sense that they're flawed multiple-time all-stars that while being very good players, the fit was no longer right for their teams. Griffin putting up 18 & 6, got the Clippers Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, a 1st rounder who turned out to be 12th overall, and a second rounder. Of course they'd have to find the right buyer which won't be easy but Derozan could fetch that kind of return.

I personally would like to see the value of Derozan maximized in a trade that would bring the right kind of defensive, tough-minded two-way players, which is what we lacked this post-season. Kawhi being the ultimate embodiment of that, so I'd like to see a package for him, though I realize that's unlikely. Failing that, if they're going to for the Parsons + 4th, I think they should also gear up to do something similar for Lowry and JV. That is, trade them for bad salaries +picks, play the bad contracts a lot, and do a bona-fide tank to get more lottery picks.

Then hope we get Doncic this year (who's a heck of player), and also hope that he can beat the NBA athletic defenders as easily as in the eurolegue, and more importantly, hope Doncic himself can also defend quick physical guards/wings that can shoot, which is what Derozan can't do. Either way, it's gonna be an interesting off-season. I could see both strategies working, if the value we get back for whatever we send out is maximized. But if we can't get the value for DD, yeah I agree may as well keep him. I'm sure Masai will keep in mind that we have one of the deepest teams in the league, and that whatever he moves out, it will be for the best return.

[rocwell]

19.. he did this at 19. Against the men.
This stands out because in effect Doncic is fighting a few weight classes up...

To me anyway... its a little ethnocentric to brush this off because its not the NCAA. Odds are pretty good the Euroleague champ crushes and powders any one of the final four teams by 20 or more points in any given year each and every time.. .and Doncic plays in that league..

Real Madrid would beat Villanova by 30.

[Barolt]

Real Madrid would beat Villanova by 30.

And that's not even really the point, because Doncic was also one of the best players at Eurobasket, with plenty of NBA pros, and two years ago guarded Russ in a preseason game and took Dipo off the dribble. He's GOOD.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

So what you're saying is Masai would rather make them slowly, and also slowly fall in the win column, basically becoming more and more of a treadmill team, which is exactly what he said he didn't want this team to be?

He could start having to worry about his own job if this is the approach he takes.

Seriously man, I do not understand the people who have this stance. It's like they actually want to treadmill.

[rocwell]

Seriously man, I do not understand the people who have this stance. It's like they actually want to treadmill.

[KeonClark]

So what you're saying is Masai would rather make them slowly, and also slowly fall in the win column, basically becoming more and more of a treadmill team, which is exactly what he said he didn't want this team to be?

He could start having to worry about his own job if this is the approach he takes.

You realize you have to have a good dance partner right? People acting like there's some casino cash out desk masai can bring his assets to exchange for "great pickz and playerz"

[white men can't jump]

You realize you have to have a good dance partner right? People acting like there's some casino cash out desk masai can bring his assets to exchange for "great pickz and playerz"

No, I have repeatedly said it would depend on who is on the board at #4 for Masai to make this kind of deal so it should only happen on draft night assuming it is available. The Memphis scenario is pretty believable if the Grizzlies want to stay competitive. If they have interest in Demar and someone Masai thinks can be a star is available, I don't see any reason not to do this deal. It's worth swallowing Parsons' deal and it's about as good value as you can hope for an all-star to get a high lotto pick.

Some people have been arguing the Raptors shouldn't or Masai wouldn't make this kind of deal. I think they should if it's a possibility, and I hope Masai would be willing to take that kind of risk. I don't think he's averse to taking that kind of risk, and I hope he has free reign to because it would be even more alarming if MLSE wouldn't let him.

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[Hotshot]

Seriously man, I do not understand the people who have this stance. It's like they actually want to treadmill.

Seriously are you 12 years old?! Since this is the conclusion you've reached.

[Scraptor]

Just poking my head in, I think the DeMar to Memphis deals are sound, but a DeMar trade almost certainly won't happen. Masai cares too much about continuity and optics to trade DeMar imo, even if he did express displeasure with him.

Masai has literally never been in a position where he had to choose to make big changes or not.

This is such a cop out. Masai has been in a position to make big changes throughout his tenure here. He came in with absolute authority and institutional goodwill, so he could have assessed the team and made changes but he chose to wait and see how the team performed. Then after the Wizards sweep he could have made changes, or after any of the Cavs losses.

Some people have been arguing the Raptors shouldn't or Masai wouldn't make this kind of deal. I think they should if it's a possibility, and I hope Masai would be willing to take that kind of risk. I don't think he's averse to taking that kind of risk, and I hope he has free reign to because it would be even more alarming if MLSE wouldn't let him.

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Masai is the president and he signed a 5 yr, $32 million extension in 2016. He is the boss and he has guaranteed job security. If he doesn't do anything major are we really going to put the blame on MLSE? Or is it more likely that the guy who constantly preaches continuity and internal growth is simply unwilling to take major risks--as has largely been the case for his entire tenure here?

[LJ2]

DeMar doesn't really fit the "grit and grind" mould. Not sure how well he fits into the Grizzlies offence. I think he would be a far better fit with the Pels if we packaged him and JV for Cousins +asset (if Cousins is healthy that is).

[Cross]

Not to belittle the Euroleague MVP award, but looking at past winners...... this ain't exactly a murderer's row:

well, you completely missing out 2 key aspects (be it on purpose or not):
as already pointed out - Doncic is 19, all of the rest being well-seasoned men. don't underestimate that.
and Euroleague MVP award winners have one thing in common - they have "IT") they are mentally tough players, capable of elevating their play (and the level of team-mates) come PO time. It's not some regular season bullshit like NBA:P

and those intangibles are huge. You remember likes of Anthony Bennet, don't you?