Everything 2018 Off Season

[Nilanka]

Masai will likely keep the core together, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision.

We'll just be back here in 12 months talking about how "we missed shots we normally make, their stars are better than our stars, the refs screwed us, we're one of the youngest teams in the playoffs, we always lose game 1s, etc."

Lather, rise, repeat until Lowry/DeRozan/Ibaka's contracts are off the books, and we're forced to rebuild.

We are without a doubt, the Atlanta Hawks 2.0. There is no more evidence required.

[DanH]

Masai will likely keep the core together, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision.

We'll just be back here in 12 months talking about how "we missed shots we normally make, their stars are better than our stars, the refs screwed us, we're one of the youngest teams in the playoffs, we always lose game 1s, etc."

Lather, rise, repeat until Lowry/DeRozan/Ibaka's contracts are off the books, and we're forced to rebuild.

We are without a doubt, the Atlanta Hawks 2.0. There is no more evidence required.

Uh, yeah, when we signed Lowry, DeMar, Ibaka last summer everyone knew that meant three years of seeing where that core can take us. There was no mystery there.

I do think it is silly to suggest that after one season we know for certain what the ceiling of this team is. Especially when they could easily be up 2-1 on the Cavs right now.

[gk17]

Masai will likely keep the core together, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision.

We'll just be back here in 12 months talking about how "we missed shots we normally make, their stars are better than our stars, the refs screwed us, we're one of the youngest teams in the playoffs, we always lose game 1s, etc."

Lather, rise, repeat until Lowry/DeRozan/Ibaka's contracts are off the books, and we're forced to rebuild.

We are without a doubt, the Atlanta Hawks 2.0. There is no more evidence required.

What's so bad about winning 50+ games every year? I would take that instead of sucking 5-7 years in a row and hoping to draft a new franchise player, who - in the worst case scenario - leaves Toronto after his rookie contract?

But the change is coming... after the next season, I guess.

[Nilanka]

I do think it is silly to suggest that after one season we know for certain what the ceiling of this team is. Especially when they could easily be up 2-1 on the Cavs right now.

I think it's silly to think we're only 1 season into this experiment. Ibaka + plus "culture reset" is nothing but meaningless noise.

But you're right, we cannot say with 100% certainty what this team's ceiling is. 99.7% certain is more like it.

[Nilanka]

What's so bad about winning 50+ games every year? I would take that instead of sucking 5-7 years in a row and hoping to draft a new franchise player, who - in the worst case scenario - leaves Toronto after his rookie contract?

But the change is coming... after the next season, I guess.

What's bad is knowing the outcome ahead of time. That we have no chance of competing for a championship.

[gk17]

What's bad is knowing the outcome ahead of time. That we have no chance of competing for a championship.

This is true for most teams and they play anyway. But unlike the Raptors, they didn't win 59 games. No fun in the regular season, no playoffs... not a nice thought. And tanking doesn't guarantee a championship.

[Nilanka]

This is true for most teams and they play anyway. But unlike the Raptors, they didn't win 59 games. No fun in the regular season, no playoffs... not a nice thought. And tanking doesn't guarantee a championship.

Agreed. Tanking simply increases the odds of landing the 1st ingredient required to win a championship: elite talent (something we currently don't have).

But winning 50 games every year with this core DOES guarantee we don't land elite talent.

[DanH]

Agreed. Tanking simply increases the odds of landing the 1st ingredient required to win a championship: elite talent (something we currently don't have).

But winning 50 games every year with this core DOES guarantee we don't land elite talent.

It does? What pick was Kawhi Leonard taken with, by which team? Any chance the team that had won 50 games every year for like two decades?

Elite talent is found in the late lotto and outside the lotto. If you want to beat the "increased odds" drum, don't then conflate the opposing side to "guaranteeing" they never get an elite talent.

[Rudy Bargnani]

I do think it is silly to suggest that after one season we know for certain what the ceiling of this team is. Especially when they could easily be up 2-1 on the Cavs right now.

C’mon man. The band could very well be back together again but it’s certainly not silly to question this core’s ceiling.

[DanH]

I think it's silly to think we're only 1 season into this experiment. Ibaka + plus "culture reset" is nothing but meaningless noise.

But you're right, we cannot say with 100% certainty what this team's ceiling is. 99.7% certain is more like it.

I feel like maybe you didn't watch this team the past few years if you think these playoffs and this Cavs series in any way replicates the problems they had in the past to nearly the same degree.

If the Raptors hit two more shots over the past three games, are you still barking up this tree with us up 2-1? Surely your opinion of this team can't be so fragile as to be changed by a couple missed shots.

Unlike previous years, this team is in the game with the Cavs every night. And had every chance to win the series before some bad bounces and LeBron James (and it required both) put them down 3-0. That was never true in the past. It was not true when they were tied 2-2 in the ECF two years ago.

Being down 3-0 sucks. But you have to be blind to think this is the same as previous years.

[DanH]

C’mon man. The band could very well be back together again but it’s certainly not silly to question this core’s ceiling.

Did I say anything about it being silly to question the team's ceiling?

I do think it is silly to suggest that after one season we know for certain what the ceiling of this team is.

[Nilanka]

It does? What pick was Kawhi Leonard taken with, by which team? Any chance the team that had won 50 games every year for like two decades?

Elite talent is found in the late lotto and outside the lotto. If you want to beat the "increased odds" drum, don't then conflate the opposing side to "guaranteeing" they never get an elite talent.

"Guarantee" was hyperbole on my part. But the point remains. Not very wise to hang our hat on the only example of an elite team drafting an elite player resulting in a championship. The Spurs are somewhat of an anomaly when it comes to player development.

[Nilanka]

I feel like maybe you didn't watch this team the past few years if you think these playoffs and this Cavs series in any way replicates the problems they had in the past to nearly the same degree.

If the Raptors hit two more shots over the past three games, are you still barking up this tree with us up 2-1? Surely your opinion of this team can't be so fragile as to be changed by a couple missed shots.

Unlike previous years, this team is in the game with the Cavs every night. And had every chance to win the series before some bad bounces and LeBron James (and it required both) put them down 3-0. That was never true in the past. It was not true when they were tied 2-2 in the ECF two years ago.

Being down 3-0 sucks. But you have to be blind to think this is the same as previous years.

If, if, if.

Convince me this team has what it takes to reach the finals without the ifs. We've been here far too long for ifs.

[KeonClark]

I feel like maybe you didn't watch this team the past few years if you think these playoffs and this Cavs series in any way replicates the problems they had in the past to nearly the same degree.

If the Raptors hit two more shots over the past three games, are you still barking up this tree with us up 2-1? Surely your opinion of this team can't be so fragile as to be changed by a couple missed shots.

Unlike previous years, this team is in the game with the Cavs every night. And had every chance to win the series before some bad bounces and LeBron James (and it required both) put them down 3-0. That was never true in the past. It was not true when they were tied 2-2 in the ECF two years ago.

Being down 3-0 sucks. But you have to be blind to think this is the same as previous years.

That's whats sad about the whole thing. It absolutely DOES feel different from other years, like we COULD beat the Cavs. And yet still, here we are. I still look back on game 1. We absolutely 100% were supposed to win that ball game. That's the one that still burns. We could be down 2-1 on the back of an incredible Lebron buzzer beater Saturday, and trying to tie the series in a massive game 4 tonight. That's literally how a bounce here or a bounce there can alter a franchise for a long time. Sucks how we usually get the bad bounce rather than the good bounce

[MixxAOR]

If, if, if.

Convince me this team has what it takes to reach the finals without the ifs. We've been here far too long for ifs.

No team can give you that guarantee.