Everything 2018 Off Season

[slaw]

I still don't know what the difference between a president and GM is....

See, I think being a GM is now more about management than anything else. Front offices are huge and the information at their disposal is so large. No one person can manage that role, be a traditional player personnel decision-maker and run a billion dollar organization at the same time. Having the split allows the President to do the business part and manage the organization as a whole while the GM can focus on managing his team and having the day-to-day work done by assistants, etc.

Not to say that's a perfect descriptor of every relationship but I suspect it largely works. It's also not to say that Ujiri, for example, isn't involved in key decisions, just that he's making those decisions based on his GM's work in managing the thousands of inputs as opposed to doing it himself.

It's why I said the SVG was doomed to failure. One man cannot possibly to all the above and coach as well.

[Scraptor]

Using the Raptors 905 team is not a strategy. So, right there, this post has problems.

Your examples are either contra evidence to your position (Powell, JV, Casey, Ibaka) or are compromised by your false characterizations of them, which leaves a lot to be desired.

As per your bold, yes, that's what they've been doing for 7 years. Developing role players. That's the single, most material event that has occurred in 7 years. That's the key takeaway to highlight. Okay, then.

You still have yet to say what our strategy is. You can be sarcastic all you want but that isn't a rebuttal.

How do you plan to get this team from good to great? Or more accurately, what is Masai's plan?

Who is the best player Masai Ujiri has acquired in eight years as an executive?

Back when Masai first decided against tanking the main argument was that Masai could carefully accumulate assets and parlay them into valuable pieces. Yet we are about to go deep into luxury tax territory with no picks. Our best player will be 34 when his contract ends.

So what exactly is the plan? I'm all ears.

[G__Deane]

I said at the time and I say now that giving Lowry 30M was at least a 10M over pay and makes him virtually untradeable now. Somehow trade Ibaka and eat half his salary, "saving" 10M and trade Lowry and eat half his salary "saving" 15M .... And I'm a big Lowry fan. Trade Norm (WHY DO ALL OUR TRADES INVOLVE EATING SALARY???) and "save" 5M. Is all this even possible?

I think we don't even notive Ibaka's absence, Lowry can be somewhat replaced and Norm gave us nothing but will probably flourish elsewhere lol

Sign someone of DeRozan's quality who actually plays D for 20M and FVV for the 10M, 30M total we saved from dumping players and go a bit into tax hell if we have to. WHO CAN WE GET FOR THAT 20M to play alongside DD and make him the 1B option. Play JV the minutes he deserves.

Can Casey and let Stackhouse continue the development of OG, Siakam, Poeltl and FVV and get more out of DeMar. It will be more entertaining and more athletic basketball. More winning, I'm not so sure

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You still have yet to say what our strategy is. You can be sarcastic all you want but that isn't a rebuttal.

How do you plan to get this team from good to great? Or more accurately, what is Masai's plan?

Who is the best player Masai Ujiri has acquired in eight years as an executive?

Back when Masai first decided against tanking the main argument was that Masai could carefully accumulate assets and parlay them into valuable pieces. Yet we are about to go deep into luxury tax territory with no picks. Our best player will be 34 when his contract ends.

So what exactly is the plan? I'm all ears.

My plan would be a complete tear down to tank for actual superstars.

We need to basically draft TMac, VC level guys like we did in the 90s, and actually keep them together and build a strong team around them. Right now our foundation is all-star/borderline all-star level guys (DeMar and Lowry would never make the ASG in the west), that's not good enough.

[planetmars]

As much as I love the youngsters, I don't think a team of OG, Wright, Siakam, Poeltl, Freddy playing 35 mpg, has the capacity to win more than 30 games.

And depending on who the coach is, the strategy should be to emphasize skill development over winning (which would expectedly cost us a few additional wins).

If we tank, we keep the kids, give them heavy minutes, win maybe 27 games, and end up with a top 10 pick. And that's not including any picks/prospects we receive from unloading some of our established players.

I think our young guys without Lowry/DeMar would look a lot like Boston does right now. Just need a grizzled vet to play the Horford role and a young coach like Stackhouse and we could get 45-50 wins.. especially in the East.

[planetmars]

No, bring them back. In my head, keeping the main core together and making changes around them = retooling.

Rebuilding would be getting rid of the main core completely. (Demar, Lowry, jv, ibaka)

I think one of DD and KL need to go. With Casey. Preference would be DD because he doesn't play defense.. and is mentally soft. Plus DD would bring back more than KL or Ibaka would because of his age and star status in the league.

Ibaka is going to end up like Jose's contract. Just waiting for the day that it becomes an expiring so that we can move him for something else.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I think our young guys without Lowry/DeMar would look a lot like Boston does right now. Just need a grizzled vet to play the Horford role and a young coach like Stackhouse and we could get 45-50 wins.. especially in the East.

No they wouldn't.

This is the problem, people here have got to stop overrating our young guys. Tatum and Brown are both significantly better prospects than even OG, and Rozier is a better prospect than anyone else we have. Horford isn't just a "grizzled vet" he's probably been the best player in the East playoffs besides LeBron. He's an excellent two way player and at least as good as DeMar and Lowry are.

[planetmars]

No they wouldn't.

This is the problem, people here have got to stop overrating our young guys. Tatum and Brown are both significantly better prospects than even OG, and Rozier is a better prospect than anyone else we have. Horford isn't just a "grizzled vet" he's probably been the best player in the East playoffs besides LeBron. He's an excellent two way player and at least as good as DeMar and Lowry are.

That's why I said 45 wins instead of 55 wins. Tatum and Brown are better than OG and Siakam.. definitely.. no question. But I'm assuming we could get some type of talent back for KL and DD and not just "empty" TPE's. As for Rozier.. I think Fred could do what he does if given starter minutes and a chance to call out his own plays for most of the game. He's got the IQ part locked down.

Sorry I wasn't trying to paint Horford as a Scola wannabe. Just the role he has in that he's the team's "leader". A guy who's been there and and done that. Our young pups would need a guy like that.

[Mindlessness]

That's why I said 45 wins instead of 55 wins. Tatum and Brown are better than OG and Siakam.. definitely.. no question. But I'm assuming we could get some type of talent back for KL and DD and not just "empty" TPE's. As for Rozier.. I think Fred could do what he does if given starter minutes and a chance to call out his own plays for most of the game. He's got the IQ part locked down.

Sorry I wasn't trying to paint Horford as a Scola wannabe. Just the role he has in that he's the team's "leader". A guy who's been there and and done that. Our young pups would need a guy like that.

Or we can just sign Rozier after next season, especially if we do tear it down... which I think we won't but whatever this board is hell bent on flipping everyone for something.

Realistically, the only one I hope Masai trades is Ibaka - cause that contract is not worth it.

[planetmars]

Or we can just sign Rozier after next season, especially if we do tear it down... which I think we won't but whatever this board is hell bent on flipping everyone for something.

Realistically, the only one I hope Masai trades is Ibaka - cause that contract is not worth it.

I'd rather have Fred and Wright. Rozier is playing well but it's Steven's system. IT had the season of his career under him for a reason.

As for Ibaka.. I feel like we're hand cuffed to him.. and the only hope we have for freedom is when he becomes an expiring.. so just one more year on his deal (hopefully).

[JawsGT]

You still have yet to say what our strategy is. You can be sarcastic all you want but that isn't a rebuttal.

How do you plan to get this team from good to great? Or more accurately, what is Masai's plan?

Who is the best player Masai Ujiri has acquired in eight years as an executive?

Back when Masai first decided against tanking the main argument was that Masai could carefully accumulate assets and parlay them into valuable pieces. Yet we are about to go deep into luxury tax territory with no picks. Our best player will be 34 when his contract ends.

So what exactly is the plan? I'm all ears.

The plan is to roll with these guys for another year and see what they can do. Ujiri never put this shit together with an exit strategy after just one year. Hell, it was just before the season started when everyone was applauding his ability to sign Ibaka and Lowry to short term deals. Given the complete change in style of offence, the boys haven't done so bad really. 1st seed but likely to lose to, quite possibly, the most dominant player to ever play the game. And shit, in the second round at that. Sure, a sweep would look bad and Demar hasn't played well, but they competed for most of the series and are probably just a decent Serge Ibaka performance away from leading this thing.

These guys need another season to improve and they're going to get it. Maybe Ibaka does get moved, Powell might get traded, Fred may or may not be back, but that's about it IMO. Unless MU can package a group together for a really good player to put with Lowry, Demar and JV, I don't think there is gonna be much action in the offseason. Casey will be back too.

[Scraptor]

The plan is to roll with these guys for another year and see what they can do. Ujiri never put this shit together with an exit strategy after just one year. Hell, it was just before the season started when everyone was applauding his ability to sign Ibaka and Lowry to short term deals. Given the complete change in style of offence, the boys haven't done so bad really. 1st seed but likely to lose to, quite possibly, the most dominant player to ever play the game. And shit, in the second round at that. Sure, a sweep would look bad and Demar hasn't played well, but they competed for most of the series and are probably just a decent Serge Ibaka performance away from leading this thing.

These guys need another season to improve and they're going to get it. Maybe Ibaka does get moved, Powell might get traded, Fred may or may not be back, but that's about it IMO. Unless MU can package a group together for a really good player to put with Lowry, Demar and JV, I don't think there is gonna be much action in the offseason. Casey will be back too.

It speaks to the messianic nature of Masai's tenure here that people consider this year one of Masai's plan. This is going to be his sixth offseason. Five full seasons.

We've been talking about our ceiling going back to February 2015.

But as time goes on, the foundation of the team settles in like concrete, and the big question will be... what is the ceiling of this group?

How have we improved our ceiling in that time?

We have won fewer playoff games against the Cavs in 3 YEARS than the Pacers did this year. After tonight's loss we have the 15th worst playoff record in the NBA during Masai's tenure.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...y=win_loss_pct

Our reputation has not improved to allow us to win key free agent battles; PJ Tucker left for less money. We never got a meeting with KD after so much talk about how Drake and Masai would get us a shot at him.

The odds of landing a star late in the draft are minimal. Bruno is gone. Powell is borderline useless. OG and Pascal are solid, but will they lead us to championship contention? Wright? Poeltl?

So what is our strategy to eventually become a championship contender?

[hotfuzz]

It speaks to the messianic nature of Masai's tenure here that people consider this year one of Masai's plan. This is going to be his sixth offseason. Five full seasons.

We've been talking about our ceiling going back to February 2015.



How have we improved our ceiling in that time?

We have won fewer playoff games against the Cavs in 3 YEARS than the Pacers did this year. After tonight's loss we have the 15th worst playoff record in the NBA during Masai's tenure.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...y=win_loss_pct

Our reputation has not improved to allow us to win key free agent battles; PJ Tucker left for less money. We never got a meeting with KD after so much talk about how Drake and Masai would get us a shot at him.

The odds of landing a star late in the draft are minimal. Bruno is gone. Powell is borderline useless. OG and Pascal are solid, but will they lead us to championship contention? Wright? Poeltl?

So what is our strategy to eventually become a championship contender?

I'm with you man. It doesn't really seem like Masai has a plan and that's concerning considering it's been 5 seasons. We're tread-milling now and that's one thing Masai we would never be. We've essentially been pretenders for 3 years straight now.

Masai just seems to be "going with the flow" and always preaching about "wait and see". Well how much more do you want to fucking wait Masai?

[Mindlessness]

I'm with you man. It doesn't really seem like Masai has a plan and that's concerning considering it's been 5 seasons. We're tread-milling now and that's one thing Masai we would never be. We've essentially been pretenders for 3 years straight now.

Masai just seems to be "going with the flow" and always preaching about "wait and see". Well how much more do you want to fucking wait Masai?

Well I mean, Masai tried to take what seemed to be a functioning core and apply a system reset to it.

There seem to be people who forget Masai came in planning on stripping what is currently this team's core. He stripped away part of it and found a something that functioned surprisingly well - he was still about to strip it down but fate had another plan.

He ran with it, supplemented it with strong bench pieces from smart trades. When the coaching wasn't working, he kept a positive outlook and demanded a culture reset and change. He tried to gauge the absolute ceiling of those group: but his coach and unwilling core failed.

He implemented a development process for young prospects. He's nailed near every one of his draft picks - Bruno and Daniels may be the only ones you can pick on.

Yeah, it's been 5 years; this last year we thought the process was true and tried and statistically correct. We thought this team was different, played the right way, would raise their ceiling to the heaven above and who knows beyond. That's what we thought a few short weeks ago.

He may have seemed a man without a plan to you. To me, I see an approach to a full scale team-building exercise that needs to be seen through to the end - this "wait-and-see" mentality has not been without action, and those almost always positive.

I get questioning the highest authority, in fact, I believe that it's absolutely justified. I'm all about questioning. But I just don't think Masai's answers are anything but great. There's little doubt in me that his answers will also continue to be so.

So I'm sticking with him.

[S.R.]

I'm with you man. It doesn't really seem like Masai has a plan and that's concerning considering it's been 5 seasons. We're tread-milling now and that's one thing Masai we would never be. We've essentially been pretenders for 3 years straight now.

Masai just seems to be "going with the flow" and always preaching about "wait and see". Well how much more do you want to fucking wait Masai?

He absolutely does have a plan, his plan was to see how far he could get with this core since they started winning with the failed Lowry trade. And they've been trending up ever since.

But with the past couple of postseasons, they've hit a playoff ceiling - hard. Will MU change course now or play out the timeline he gave himself?

I'm honestly hoping for a new coach and some kind of DD trade. Moving Ibaka would be a miracle, hard to see how that could happen without a lot of pain.

The need to move on can't involve digging too deep of a hole with taking back bad contracts or throwing in too many sweeteners to move players like Ibaka. If those are the only options, Masai will likely stand mostly pat and ride out this window he's given himself.