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  • his plan was to see how far he could get with this core since they started winning with the failed Lowry trade. And they've been trending up ever since.
    That isn't a proactive strategy, though, it's a reactive one. And I don't know if we've been trending up ever since if we've been swept three of the past four seasons, twice by a lower seed.

    S.R. wrote: View Post
    The need to move on can't involve digging too deep of a hole with taking back bad contracts or throwing in too many sweeteners to move players like Ibaka. If those are the only options, Masai will likely stand mostly pat and ride out this window he's given himself.
    If those are the only options, they are the only options because Masai has painted himself into a corner, as he did with the Carroll trade. Standing pat wouldn't be by choice--it would be because of a lack of choices.

    I like Masai. He's a fantastic person and a shrewd evaluator of talent. But we have a pile of bad contracts, no picks, and we have lost ten straight to the Cavs in the playoffs. And barring a miracle we are probably going to end up having spent seven years running in place.

    The Toronto Raptors are the first #1 seed in NBA history to get swept prior to the Conference Finals since the conference format was adopted in 1971.
    The Raptors' 35-Point Loss Is The Worst Game 4 Loss By a #1 Seed in Getting Swept Before the Finals, Breaking The Record of 29 Points By The 2001 Spurs (Lost to Lakers)
    The Toronto Raptors suffered a -56 point differential in the ECSF, this is the third worst point differential by a 1 seed in any round since the modern era (1984), and by far the worst in the conference semi finals for a team.
    These aren't signs of progress.

    Comment


    • S.R. wrote: View Post
      Moving Ibaka would be a miracle, hard to see how that could happen without a lot of pain.
      Ibaka averaged 16.5/8.2 this season with 1.7 blocks per game while shooting 36 percent from deep (pretty great for a PF) and .797 on free throws and you think Masai would have trouble trading him? It takes one GM to say "okay, he had a bad playoffs, but he's had good playoffs before and his regular season numbers were great" and more than one GM will say that because Ibaka's still a very good player who just happens to not mesh terrifically well with the Raptors' style.

      I don't think it's possible to move Ibaka for, say, a first-round pick and no money back. But a pick or prospect and, say, enough salary so the Raps have $10m of salary on their books instead of $20 million? I think there are teams enough who would be interested in that.

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      • magoon wrote: View Post
        Ibaka averaged 16.5/8.2 this season with 1.7 blocks per game while shooting 36 percent from deep (pretty great for a PF) and .797 on free throws and you think Masai would have trouble trading him? It takes one GM to say "okay, he had a bad playoffs, but he's had good playoffs before and his regular season numbers were great" and more than one GM will say that because Ibaka's still a very good player who just happens to not mesh terrifically well with the Raptors' style.

        I don't think it's possible to move Ibaka for, say, a first-round pick and no money back. But a pick or prospect and, say, enough salary so the Raps have $10m of salary on their books instead of $20 million? I think there are teams enough who would be interested in that.
        Uh what?
        Serge averaged 12.6/6.3/1.3 during the regular season and 8.7/5.9/1.3 in the playoffs, where he cratered so hard he was benched for game 3.

        He has the 36th highest salary in the NBA next year and there are maybe half a dozen teams with capspace this summer, and most of them are tanking.

        https://basketball.realgm.com/analys...l-30-NBA-Teams

        We had to spend 2 picks to get rid of Carroll at $30 million remaining. We almost certainly aren't going to receive anything of value for Serge at $45 million remaining.

        I mean I hope I'm wrong and someone will jump at giving us something for a 12/6 big man making $22 million next year, but in this cap environment it seems unlikely at best.

        Comment


        • Pistons fired Van Gundy. I say we take him.

          Comment


          • Keeping things in perspective for the Raps: the reigning MVP (Westbrook) plus another elite 2-way player (Paul George) couldn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs against a re-building Utah Jazz squad that lost their best player to free agency.

            I could see SVG going to OKC, if PG stays.

            Comment


            • golden wrote: View Post
              Keeping things in perspective for the Raps: the reigning MVP (Westbrook) plus another elite 2-way player (Paul George) couldn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs against a re-building Utah Jazz squad that lost their best player to free agency.

              I could see SVG going to OKC, if PG stays.
              Westbrook = DeRozan.

              Comment


              • I will explain once and for all why we lost and we keep losing in the playoffs. It's very simple:

                We The North.

                We angered the grammar gods. I guarantee you guys that if we change it to We Are The North, the grammar gods will grant us favor and we'll go on to win the championship. Same reason the Leafs can't win anything.

                your pal,
                ebrian

                Comment


                • As I wrote in another thread.... the rats will take over the forum for a while... Its interesting to observe the strange revelery they exhibit after the team they purportedly cheer for absorbs a difficult loss. This is happiness and vindication in rat-world.

                  There will be demands for what the quick fix explanation is on what the over arching forward looking strategy should be ..while offering nothing of substance from themselves. Just have something on my desk in the morning demands because.. well.. we don't having a fucking clue what to do either. . The insightful... just "get a player that is as good as Lebron James" for the Raps .... yes .. of course... breakthrough thinking that. Why couldn't anyone else see that simplistic fix.... Its so easy to do.

                  There will be the hyper smarmy "I told you so" type posts from the usual suspects. Just look over at Team X .. they are soooooo much better. Why can't we be like that.

                  There will be the "I knew it" posts from those invested in their team as long as they are winning. The "I knew its" bail immediately at the first sign of adversity.

                  Cheese anyone ?



                  The status quo isn't good enough.... We ALL expect changes.
                  Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue May 8, 2018, 10:00 AM.
                  There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                  - TGO

                  Comment


                  • With the exception of trading bargnani what has masai done that's really so amazing? He's regarded as this top of the line gm but all he has done is produce good regular season teams that crumble in the playoffs. The same was true for his Denver team.

                    He came in to Toronto and lucked out on this core, but instead of realizing that this is a flawed core, he has doubled down on it and now we're heading nowhere with very little chance of improvements.

                    If you're going to say that he has no choice, well that's his fault. He's handed out those ugly contracts and now we're locked into this flawed core. There has to be some accountability for him.

                    As scraptor said, he has been reactive rather than proactive. He has preached continuity and building culture, but what good is this culture that can't stand adversity in playoffs. Culture is overrated.
                    "Stay steamy"

                    - Kobe

                    Comment


                    • hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                      With the exception of trading bargnani what has masai done that's really so amazing? He's regarded as this top of the line gm but all he has done is produce good regular season teams that crumble in the playoffs. The same was true for his Denver team.

                      He came in to Toronto and lucked out on this core, but instead of realizing that this is a flawed core, he has doubled down on it and now we're heading nowhere with very little chance of improvements.

                      If you're going to say that he has no choice, well that's his fault. He's handed out those ugly contracts and now we're locked into this flawed core. There has to be some accountability for him.

                      As scraptor said, he has been reactive rather than proactive. He has preached continuity and building culture, but what good is this culture that can't stand adversity in playoffs. Culture is overrated.
                      I knew it !
                      There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                      - TGO

                      Comment


                      • ebrian wrote: View Post
                        I will explain once and for all why we lost and we keep losing in the playoffs. It's very simple:

                        We The North.

                        We angered the grammar gods. I guarantee you guys that if we change it to We Are The North, the grammar gods will grant us favor and we'll go on to win the championship. Same reason the Leafs can't win anything.

                        I told you so !
                        There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                        - TGO

                        Comment


                        • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                          That isn't a proactive strategy, though, it's a reactive one. And I don't know if we've been trending up ever since if we've been swept three of the past four seasons, twice by a lower seed.



                          If those are the only options, they are the only options because Masai has painted himself into a corner, as he did with the Carroll trade. Standing pat wouldn't be by choice--it would be because of a lack of choices.

                          I like Masai. He's a fantastic person and a shrewd evaluator of talent. But we have a pile of bad contracts, no picks, and we have lost ten straight to the Cavs in the playoffs. And barring a miracle we are probably going to end up having spent seven years running in place.







                          These aren't signs of progress.
                          Get me a one paragraph long term strategy paper on my desk in one hour.... and it better be good.
                          There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                          - TGO

                          Comment


                          • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                            You still have yet to say what our strategy is. You can be sarcastic all you want but that isn't a rebuttal.

                            How do you plan to get this team from good to great? Or more accurately, what is Masai's plan?

                            Who is the best player Masai Ujiri has acquired in eight years as an executive?

                            Back when Masai first decided against tanking the main argument was that Masai could carefully accumulate assets and parlay them into valuable pieces. Yet we are about to go deep into luxury tax territory with no picks. Our best player will be 34 when his contract ends.

                            So what exactly is the plan? I'm all ears.
                            I am not Masai Ujiri. If I had to say, what's the strategy?, my answer would look something like this:

                            Create an organization that is capable of both short term and long term success by first stabilizing the organization and then building an infrastructure that supports those goals leveraging Toronto's unique position in the NBA.

                            As for the roster itself, he's been able to re-sign his best players (stabilizing the team rather than the constant turnover and flux of the past), brought in layers of young players to support the current stars and ensure continuity and depth going forward, and add, where needed, via player acquisition vets to fill the cracks.

                            I can say this for certain. When Tim Leiweke was hired, the Leafs, Raps and TFC all had a huge re-think and all were required to adopt new strategic visions and implementation processes. They looked at every team building exercise in the modern leagues and how every single championship team was built. They developed both short and long term plans based on that analysis. I know this because I know people who were involved in the presentations to Shanahan and Ujiri.

                            So, again, they have a plan. You don't like it. Fine. But stop with the "they have no plan nonsense".

                            Comment


                            • slaw wrote: View Post
                              I am not Masai Ujiri. If I had to say, what's the strategy?, my answer would look something like this:

                              Create an organization that is capable of both short term and long term success by first stabilizing the organization and then building an infrastructure that supports those goals leveraging Toronto's unique position in the NBA.

                              As for the roster itself, he's been able to re-sign his best players (stabilizing the team rather than the constant turnover and flux of the past), brought in layers of young players to support the current stars and ensure continuity and depth going forward, and add, where needed, via player acquisition vets to fill the cracks.

                              I can say this for certain. When Tim Leiweke was hired, the Leafs, Raps and TFC all had a huge re-think and all were required to adopt new strategic visions and implementation processes. They looked at every team building exercise in the modern leagues and how every single championship team was built. They developed both short and long term plans based on that analysis. I know this because I know people who were involved in the presentations to Shanahan and Ujiri.

                              So, again, they have a plan. You don't like it. Fine. But stop with the "they have no plan nonsense".
                              How about this: Masai had a plan, that plan has now backfired (based on current contractual obligations), and now the initial noble idea looks awfully mis-judged.

                              So where do we go from here?

                              Comment


                              • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                                It speaks to the messianic nature of Masai's tenure here that people consider this year one of Masai's plan. This is going to be his sixth offseason. Five full seasons.

                                We've been talking about our ceiling going back to February 2015.



                                How have we improved our ceiling in that time?

                                We have won fewer playoff games against the Cavs in 3 YEARS than the Pacers did this year. After tonight's loss we have the 15th worst playoff record in the NBA during Masai's tenure.

                                https://www.basketball-reference.com...y=win_loss_pct

                                Our reputation has not improved to allow us to win key free agent battles; PJ Tucker left for less money. We never got a meeting with KD after so much talk about how Drake and Masai would get us a shot at him.

                                The odds of landing a star late in the draft are minimal. Bruno is gone. Powell is borderline useless. OG and Pascal are solid, but will they lead us to championship contention? Wright? Poeltl?

                                So what is our strategy to eventually become a championship contender?
                                Win-loss percentage is an incredibly silly way to judge a team's playoff success.

                                You'd rather a team that loses in 7 in round one than a team that wins round 1 in 7 and then loses round 2 in 5?
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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