Everything 2018 Off Season

[Other Scott]

I think Lowry is right. They needed to take away space on Cleveland and defensively just make them uncomfortable. Cleveland was just too comfortable executing their sets and felt in rhythm. It's a big reason why a lot of shots were falling that weren't there in the Indiana series.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

29 teams might as well tank then. No one is winning a title except the Warriors until they break up.

No that's not true. Some teams have superstar talent to build off of as a base and build around. We do not. It is nearly pointless trying to win a title without a superstar. It doesn't happen.

You guys keep wondering why we capitulate every year to the Cavs. It's because we don't have anyone the other team is actually worried about. Nobody strikes any fear into the opponent. That's why teams are clamoring to play us every year.

We're trying to build a house on a sand foundation. We need SUPERSTAR FUCKING TALENT to win.

[golden]

No that's not true. Some teams have superstar talent to build off of as a base and build around. We do not. It is nearly pointless trying to win a title without a superstar. It doesn't happen.

You guys keep wondering why we capitulate every year to the Cavs. It's because we don't have anyone the other team is actually worried about. Nobody strikes any fear into the opponent. That's why teams are clamoring to play us every year.

We're trying to build a house on a sand foundation. We need SUPERSTAR FUCKING TALENT to win.

Let's trade for Westbrook (MVP) and Paul George. Oh wait.....

[S.R.]

Nic Batum? Zach Randolph? Wes Matthews? Am I in the 2015 offseason thread?

[Other Scott]

Nic Batum? Zach Randolph? Wes Matthews? Am I in the 2015 offseason thread?

If you want to get rid of Ibaka's contract, you have to take a bad contract on in return - aka the ones from the 2015 2016 offseasons. It's not a coincidence that's the options that were available.

[KeonClark]

Firing Casey won't solve anything. We need to stop trying to compete with this roster and rebuild. If Masai doesn't do that I'm calling for his head. We do not have the firepower to win a title.

Think realistically. Not the shaolin fantastic mind of super fun team building simulation, but from the mind of maple leafs sports and entertainment, billion dollar corporation.

[Rudy Bargnani]

So this turned out to be something. https://t.co/5DEVxPO6qh

— John Schuhmann (@johnschuhmann) May 8, 2018

Basically the raps were among the worst in NBA against top 10 offences

[MixxAOR]

Think realistically. Not the shaolin fantastic mind of super fun team building simulation, but from the mind of maple leafs sports and entertainment, billion dollar corporation.

*looks at playoff ticket prices. "Let's run with this core till wheels fall off"

[magoon]

Toronto sends Ibaka and Norman Powell to Charlotte for Nic Batum and Charlotte's 2018 first-round pick (or maybe 2019 depending on which draft Masai likes better for a late-lottery first rounder; maybe more picks, depends on how much Charlotte is willing to spend)
Charlotte may do it for their 2018 first rounder (top 3 protected obviously) because it's a low lottery pick. They get off money a year sooner and get a potentially good young player who might be rehabilitated in exchange for their pick. Whether the Raptors want a low lottery first rounder in exchange for 27M extra on their books in 2021 is anyone's guess. I would say probably not because that's when the Raptors are banking on a ton of cap space in a potentially still cramped market. Ibaka and Batum are approximately the same amount of useful, with Batum's slipping defense and poor shooting.

Note that Charlotte can't "protect" the pick because the trade would have to take place as of July 1; if it's the 2018 first-rounder, what happens is Charlotte drafts who Masai wants. Obviously if Charlotte gets a top-three pick (unlikely) they'd keep it because one of Luka Doncic, Deandre Ayton or Jaren Jackson is probably not worth the deal, but a late-lottery in 2018 is and a 2019 probably doesn't come with much protection if any because Charlotte is coming out ahead in the deal.

The Charlotte deal I structured specifically to address both teams' issues. Charlotte gets one good player (Ibaka) and a question mark who will probably develop out okay (Powell) for $33m per year, instead of having one okay player (Batum) for 24 million per year. Toronto gets Batum - who can potentially still return to his Portland form and whose skills complement the system Masai wants in place much more than Ibaka's do - and a pick, plus the cap room to resign Freddy and still be under the tax (which matters to them). Maybe Toronto throws in Malachi Richardson as well if they don't want him, I dunno, give Charlotte another cheap questionable wing prospect and free up some more cash.

- Toronto sends Ibaka and Alfonso McKinnie to Portland for Al-Farouq Aminu and Maurice Harkless
No. These are Portland's most important role players. You're looking at more like Evan Turner back.

Turner is garbage and Ibaka is not. I'm not going to write out Ibaka's stats again but let's just assume this as said: Ibaka is a good player who clearly doesn't work in Toronto's system. Aminu is a bench player who is Portland's best power forward and arguably their best big (Nurkic is fool's gold) and Ibaka represents a major upgrade in that respect, and Portland isn't going to get that for free. If Portland wants to continue competing with Dame/CJ as their backcourt (and I'm not saying they should; I think they should trade CJ, but that's me and not Portland), they need to upgrade their frontcourt to compensate and Ibaka is a good way of doing that.

- Toronto sends Ibaka and Malachi Richardson to New Orleans for Solomon Hill and New Orleans' 2019 first
The Solomon Hill contract might be worse than the Ibaka contract. It's less money but Hill is not useful, where Ibaka is at least somewhat. That said, the only way New Orleans would even consider this is if they offload Boogie for a bunch of assets and needs a better big man to support Davis than the mess they have right now. This is an okay trade for Toronto if they're trying to duck under the tax, if not I probably wouldn't bother.

This trade idea is a total sales job. Sell Ibaka to New Orleans, who need another quality big, for a money reduction and a pick. Period. (Also note that NO can't "offload Boogie for a bunch of assets" because he's a free agent.) Honestly, there's an argument that New Orleans could just buy Ibaka for the pick instead but I'm trying to be as realistic as possible.

- Toronto sends Ibaka and McKinnie to Sacramento for Zach Randolph and Garrett Temple
I don't see Sacremento doing this at all. Zach is cheaper, comes off the books sooner, and the Kings are nowhere close to being competitive where taking on tons of money for a 4th or 5th starter makes any sense.

Never underestimate Sacramento being stupid. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THEM.

- Toronto sends Ibaka to Dallas for Wes Matthews (or Dwight Powell) (or both, depending on what Dallas wants to do with its money)
Wes Matthew is an expiring contract. Why would Dallas spend the money that they're going to have come off their books on a bad contract when they can sign a good contract instead. Dwight is not enough of a downgrade over Ibaka to justify the extra money spent IMO.

Who are they signing, exactly? Have you seen the free agent crop this year? It's terrible. A bunch of guys Dallas won't get (LeBron, KD, PG13, CP3), a bunch of mediocre restricted free agents (Aaron Gordon, Jabari Parker, Jusuf Nurkic, Julius Randle), a couple of RFAs who will definitely be re-signed by their current teams (Zach LaVine, Clint Capela), and some huge question marks who probably won't be worth the money they want (DeAndre Jordan, Boogie Cousins, Isaiah Thomas). You're going to spend Ibaka-level money to get any of them anyway, and Ibaka is only on your books for two more years rather than three or four, and he's a safer bet than most of the guys Dallas could conceivably sign.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Let's trade for Westbrook (MVP) and Paul George. Oh wait.....

I didn't say superstar talent is ALL you need. You need good coaching and a good system and luck as well. But if you don't have that first element it's nearly fucking impossible to win.

So make that stupid, tired strawman argument if you want. I'm so sick of that stupidity.

[MixxAOR]

Shaolin is right. You can fail with superstar talent. But you'll never win without it

[KeonClark]

*looks at playoff ticket prices. "Let's run with this core till wheels fall off"

It's not just money these guys have tons to consider. Please remember us here at RR are the top 1% of the fandom, and we're also much more basketball intelligent than most fans. Everybody wants titles but the optics and uncertainty of tearing down a 59 win team to make a 29 teams is a heavy burden.

Not to mention very hard to do, become that bad

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Shaolin is right. You can fail with superstar talent. But you'll never win without it

It's like a Formula 1 race. Yeah just having an F1 car doesn't mean you win, you still need the right driver, pit crew and skills but if you show up there in a fucking Civic you aren't winning shit.

[magoon]

Please remember us here at RR are the top 1% of the fandom, and we're also much more basketball intelligent than most fans.

i think the second half of this statement is questionable at best

[S.R.]

They're not blowing anything up, it would cost way too much. MU would get gouged on those deals, too many expensive contracts to move.

There's a chance he stands pat on everything, they make some kind of excuse about Cleveland and promises about guys developing and changing this or that, they could still have 2 more years of 55 win teams and a couple rounds of playoffs, then the whole core is right off the books anyway. I wouldn't be excited about this at all but it's hardly the worst position to be in.

There's a chance he makes a couple of safer moves that you hope at worst are lateral but with the potential to take another step forward if it all works out. Change the coach, maybe move Ibaka, hopefully move Powell, stuff like that. You're still going to have a 55 win team and you hope the changes + internal development help you take a step forward.

The very least likely thing is moving all the core contracts that would have to go for the team to tank plus firing the coach on top of that, like a lot of people want. Doing all that to a 59 win team - I don't think that's ever been done and it's not about to happen this summer.