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  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
    No it's not. It would be great to pull this off but the draft is more reliable.

    Almost all of the past champions have had a superstar who they drafted.

    Warriors - Curry
    Spurs - Duncan, Kawhi
    Heat - Wade
    Boston - Pierce
    Mavericks - Dirk
    Lakers - Kobe
    Bulls - Jordan
    Rockets - Hakeem
    Pistons - Isaiah Thomas
    Lakers - Magic, Worthy
    Celtics - Bird, McHale, Parish

    The only exceptions since 1980 are the 2004 Pistons and I suppose the Cavs since they technically signed LeBron back after having drafted him previously. Although they had Kyrie (who they did draft but I wouldn't call a superstar really).
    Yeah, but Mixx's point was the importance of drafting 1st overall. Out of those 15 guys, only Duncan, Magic & Hakeem were first overall. That's 3/15. And again, Kobe was drafted relatively low by the Hornets acquired via trade for Vlade Divac. lol. Kawhi was also drafted low & acquired by trade for George Hill. We need to find a GM to dupe here.

    But, but, but...... that superstar has to actually be in that specific draft, or else we're looking at Kwame Brown as the face of the franchise.

    And Pierce is not a superstar... just on principle.

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    • Throwback Monday


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      • golden wrote: View Post
        Yeah, but Mixx's point was the importance of drafting 1st overall. Out of those 15 guys, only Duncan, Magic & Hakeem were first overall. That's 3/15. And again, Kobe was drafted relatively low by the Hornets acquired via trade for Vlade Divac. lol. Kawhi was also drafted low & acquired by trade for George Hill. We need to find a GM to dupe here.

        But, but, but...... that superstar has to actually be in that specific draft, or else we're looking at Kwame Brown as the face of the franchise.

        And Pierce is not a superstar... just on principle.
        Pierce is like DeRozan, in that if you put two 1st-ballot hall of famers (in their prime) next to DeRozan, he can win a championship too.

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        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
          Pierce is like DeRozan, in that if you put two 1st-ballot hall of famers (in their prime) next to DeRozan, he can win a championship too.
          Did you just say DeRozan = Pierce?

          I love DeMar but Pierce is in a completely diff level. In his prime he was legit one of the best players in the game.
          Mamba Mentality

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            Yeah, but Mixx's point was the importance of drafting 1st overall. Out of those 15 guys, only Duncan, Magic & Hakeem were first overall. That's 3/15. And again, Kobe was drafted relatively low by the Hornets acquired via trade for Vlade Divac. lol. Kawhi was also drafted low & acquired by trade for George Hill. We need to find a GM to dupe here.

            But, but, but...... that superstar has to actually be in that specific draft, or else we're looking at Kwame Brown as the face of the franchise.

            And Pierce is not a superstar... just on principle.
            You don't tank for first overall, you tank for high draft picks to get a shot at drafting a superstar. Those guys are much more likely to be found at the top of the draft.

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            • Nilanka wrote: View Post
              Pierce is like DeRozan, in that if you put two 1st-ballot hall of famers (in their prime) next to DeRozan, he can win a championship too.
              If you don't think Pierce was a superstar then neither was Vince.

              Go look at their numbers.

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              • One thing to be noted with the discussion about the value of drafting a superstar - keep in mind that the further back you go in your data sample, the more differences there are between the active CBA at the time and the current one. It is far easier to keep talent nowadays than it once was. Restricted free agency, rookie scale extensions, and veteran extensions have all been modified to dramatically help the home team to keep their players. So if you want to acquire top talent, it is easier than ever before to do so at the draft and be able to be confident that you can keep that player for potentially their entire career.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • TRex wrote: View Post
                  Did you just say DeRozan = Pierce?

                  I love DeMar but Pierce is in a completely diff level. In his prime he was legit one of the best players in the game.
                  Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  If you don't think Pierce was a superstar then neither was Vince.

                  Go look at their numbers.
                  Pierce's individual numbers were good, but his teams were trash.

                  He was a good player, don't get me wrong. But people tend to over-value him because of his ring (which was mainly Garnett changing the culture), and because of his longevity in Boston.

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                  • Pierce is no superstar. He's pretty close to DeMar's level, but he:

                    - Hit his prime earlier (DeMar is a late bloomer)
                    - Could shoot 3's
                    - Defended better
                    - His peak production was a bit higher, e.g. 27/7/5 vs. 27/5/4

                    (Speaking very quietly) Pierce was a better player, but he was no superstar. 2nd/3rd team All-NBA type, which is the level DeMar's hit the past couple of years. Mind you get back to me when DeMar wins a Finals MVP.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • People are saying trade Derozan only for a superstar like it's not going to be obvious to opposing team that the guy they have is a superstar. I guess you guys imagining a scenario like Oladipo but on superstar level. I just don't see a superstar level talent go undetected by everybody except Raps.
                      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                        People are saying trade Derozan only for a superstar like it's not going to be obvious to opposing team that the guy they have is a superstar. I guess you guys imagining a scenario like Oladipo but on superstar level. I just don't see a superstar level talent go undetected by everybody except Raps.
                        Exactly. Have to remember that the other team has to have a reason to do the trade, too.
                        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                        • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                          People are saying trade Derozan only for a superstar like it's not going to be obvious to opposing team that the guy they have is a superstar. I guess you guys imagining a scenario like Oladipo but on superstar level. I just don't see a superstar level talent go undetected by everybody except Raps.
                          I suppose Derozan for Wiggins + a sports psychologist to get him to "want it more" would be this year's buy-low comparison to Dipo. That contract, though. Wiggins is a former #1 overall with oodles of potential, but hard to be sold on a guy who can't even show up in a must-win game vs. the Venezuelan B-team.

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                          • golden wrote: View Post
                            I suppose Derozan for Wiggins + a sports psychologist to get him to "want it more" would be this year's buy-low comparison to Dipo. That contract, though. Wiggins is a former #1 overall with oodles of potential, but hard to be sold on a guy who can't even show up in a must-win game vs. the Venezuelan B-team.
                            Masai has a reputation of winning trades and making GMs look dumb. So people are very careful with him when making trades.

                            Dolan got spooked during Lowry potential trade for example
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                              Masai has a reputation of winning trades and making GMs look dumb. So people are very careful with him when making trades.

                              Dolan got spooked during Lowry potential trade for example
                              I disagree with this a bit. He has a reputation of being opportunistic maybe because he took advantage of a desperate Knicks team in that Bargnani trade, but outside of that what has he done to earn a reputation for winning trades? There was the Salmons for Lou and Nog trade, but I might be wrong but that was I think the Hawks, much like the Knicks being in a bad situation.

                              All GM's are careful when making trades with all teams. Trading with Masai doesn't make them more or less nervous. They all have different motives..need to win now, need to keep their stars happy, need to shed salary to get out of a big tax hit etc.

                              Not exactly a negative, but if Masai has a rep for taking advantage of desperate teams only then it's not really a great promotion of his GM skills. It means he basically sits and watches for a chance to scavenge what another team doesn't want or are forced to drop. I would rather he have a rep for turning smaller assets into bigger pieces. Easier said than done in Canada of course.

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                              • S.R. wrote: View Post
                                Pierce is no superstar. He's pretty close to DeMar's level, but he:

                                - Hit his prime earlier (DeMar is a late bloomer)
                                - Could shoot 3's
                                - Defended better
                                - His peak production was a bit higher, e.g. 27/7/5 vs. 27/5/4

                                (Speaking very quietly) Pierce was a better player, but he was no superstar. 2nd/3rd team All-NBA type, which is the level DeMar's hit the past couple of years. Mind you get back to me when DeMar wins a Finals MVP.
                                I agree in that Paul isn't a true superstar. But the biggest difference between the two is that Pierce is a playoff performer. DeMar isn't. Some guys are made to succeed when the bright lights are on.. some are not. Unfortunately our guy turtles.

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