Everything 2018 Off Season

[slaw]

I haven't mentioned a single trade. I'm telling you he's too passive and his time is running out. He's not impervious of criticism even if he has a strong defense in here. No one will be on defense in two years, take a look ahead.

His time is running out with this particular roster, yes, that is true but that was as much a self-imposed timeframe as anything. They gave themselves 3 years to make something happen. Year 1 was a swing and a miss. If they miss again this year they will be faced with another set of decisions.

But, organizationally, the Raptors are so far ahead of where they were 5 years ago that my guess is Ujiri and his team have earned the right to try again with a new group after 2019-20. I think he's going to be here a long time. The pressure he is feeling is the pressure to win, not the pressure to keep his job.

[Apollo]

What does he "needs to do something" mean? Are you looking for a Bryan Colangelo move where he just makes some random trade like Telfair for a pick?

Masai wants to win his transactions. Is there something wrong with that? This guy put together a group of guys without a super star, two "flawed" all-stars, and a coach that has his head up his ass a lot.. and still put up 59 wins and had the 2nd best record in the NBA (with a top 5 offense and defense to boot).

He's had one lottery pick in his tenure (one he traded for) and yet still created the best bench in the league. All with guys on their rookie deals (well all but Miles). Was that done by an ultra passive guy? Were Ibaka and Tucker at the deadline passive moves?

Let's call a spade a spade. What you are looking for specifically is for DeMar and Lowry to be traded. You don't want "something" you want those guys gone even though they only have 2 years left on their contracts.. and still might be traded considering teams haven't moved payroll around yet.

"Running into the ground"... In 2 years we'll be tanking most likely anyway. With a solid foundation of prospects and all our picks, with no long term deals on the payroll.

He needs to make a choice. Go all in on a winning a title right now OR he needs to deal the stars for picks and prospects and move on to the next chapter. I'd much rather option two. Two years in limbo is a waste of time.

Drop this Colangelo stuff. Colangelo isn't the only man in the NBA who takes risks. Most successful GM's take risks. Show me one successful person that tells you the safe road is the path to success. Find just one, go on.

[DanH]

That's a lot of assumptions. Not too long ago there was embarrassingly strong calls for DD to get moved to make way for the ascension of Norman Powell.

What? You are saying they need to DO STUFF, because they are running out of time and the clock is ticking. I'm saying if they don't do stuff, that's what the future looks like, purely based on the contracts on the roster right now. Hardly a disastrous fall back plan where the GM should be worried about a ticking clock.

[DanH]

You said June twice.. you meant July right

Bah.

[Apollo]

His time is running out with this particular roster, yes, that is true but that was as much a self-imposed timeframe as anything. They gave themselves 3 years to make something happen. Year 1 was a swing and a miss. If they miss again this year they will be faced with another set of decisions.

But, organizationally, the Raptors are so far ahead of where they were 5 years ago that my guess is Ujiri and his team have earned the right to try again with a new group after 2019-20. I think he's going to be here a long time. The pressure he is feeling is the pressure to win, not the pressure to keep his job.

I have no problem with him staying long term if he starts living up to the reputation. Fact of the matter is most of the key pieces during his time here were brought in by Colangelo.

And no, I'm not a Colangelo fan. It is a fact though, just ask Colangelo's wife.

[A.I]

He needs to make a choice. Go all in on a winning a title right now OR he needs to deal the stars for picks and prospects and move on to the next chapter. I'd much rather option two. Two years in limbo is a waste of time.

Drop this Colangelo stuff. Colangelo isn't the only man in the NBA who takes risks. Most successful GM's take risks. Show me one successful person that tells you the safe road is the path to success. Find just one, go on.

And thats how a bad tank begins. Throwing your stars away to get the tank moving quicker. You have to make the right trade to get value back that can smooth over the transition and sometimes finding that trade takes time.

[Apollo]

What? You are saying they need to DO STUFF, because they are running out of time and the clock is ticking. I'm saying if they don't do stuff, that's what the future looks like, purely based on the contracts on the roster right now. Hardly a disastrous fall back plan where the GM should be worried about a ticking clock.

Do you want to watch a winner, Dan? I do. This current team is going to win nothing. So why wait for the inevitable? Why rest of things that have yet come to pass?

[planetmars]

He needs to make a choice. Go all in on a winning a title right now OR he needs to deal the stars for picks and prospects and move on to the next chapter. I'd much rather option two. Two years in limbo is a waste of time.

He has made the decision. He is going all in on winning a title right now. You're just not a fan of the roster. That's cool. All but like 4-5 teams in the NBA have the same problem. Not all of them are tanking though.

Raps ran into Lebron who's going out West most likely. And Houston almost beat the Warriors.. a team we beat twice in the regular season and match up well with. So if the Pacers beat the Cavs and the Warriors lost to the Rockets.. the Raps could have been champions. And with a smarter coach we might have pulled off the win too. Good thing we got a new one.

[A.I]

I have no problem with him staying long term if he starts living up to the reputation. Fact of the matter is most of the key pieces during his time here were brought in by Colangelo.

And no, I'm not a Colangelo fan. It is a fact though, just ask Colangelo's wife.

I find saying “the key pieces were brought in by BC” to discredit Masai ridiculous. BC had those 3, Rudy Gay and Bargnani, it ended up being a terrible team. Masai kept those 3, surrounded them with solid role players and they won 59 games. If the Raptors won a championship with those 3, would you give credit to BC? I wouldn’t. There is more to a team than 3 players.

[Apollo]

And thats how a bad tank begins. Throwing your stars away to get the tank moving quicker. You have to make the right trade to get value back that can smooth over the transition and sometimes finding that trade takes time.

I'm not saying to throw them away. I'm telling you he's incredibly passive and the only time he ever did something great was the Melo deal when his hand was forced. By the time his hand is forced with these guys it will be to late to cash in. He is going to throw them away by being too passive.

[Barolt]

Do you want to watch a winner, Dan? I do. This current team is going to win nothing. So why wait for the inevitable? Why rest of things that have yet come to pass?

Because making that next move requires a dance partner, a team willing to make a trade that works for your plan.

[DanH]

Do you want to watch a winner, Dan? I do. This current team is going to win nothing. So why wait for the inevitable? Why rest of things that have yet come to pass?

Consider this scenario: if the Raptors wanted to, they could trade DD and KL for dead salary and 2nd round picks. Or, if they waited a year, they could trade both as expirings, and would get a prospect and 1st round pick. Which of these two trades is better for the team?

We don't know what is out there. I WANT the Raptors to trade DeMar for value, because I do think that value is there. But if Masai doesn't trade him, it doesn't mean he necessarily turned down that value. It could mean it wasn't there.

Doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff is a bad idea. Doing stuff, and taking risks, is really smart if there are risks and stuff that look good to you. Taking risks with no concern for what type of risk you are taking is dumb.

And none of that changes the fact that there is no ticking clock on Masai. He's going to get plenty more chances no matter which direction he takes the team this summer, next summer, and after this core set of contracts runs out.

[Apollo]

I find saying “the key pieces were brought in by BC” to discredit Masai ridiculous. BC had those 3, Rudy Gay and Bargnani, it ended up being a terrible team. Masai kept those 3, surrounded them with solid role players and they won 59 games. If the Raptors won a championship with those 3, would you give credit to BC? I wouldn’t. There is more to a team than 3 players.

Yes, he's good at finding cogs. He's not found a motor.

[Apollo]

Because making that next move requires a dance partner, a team willing to make a trade that works for your plan.

He's almost always the odd man out at dances. Poor guy.

[DanH]

I'm not saying to throw them away. I'm telling you he's incredibly passive and the only time he ever did something great was the Melo deal when his hand was forced. By the time his hand is forced with these guys it will be to late to cash in. He is going to throw them away by being too passive.

Cashing in is meaningless if the value isn't there right now. What are they losing out on by not trading guys if the return is garbage right now?