Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything 2018 Off Season

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I am not comfortable including both DD + OG in the same package. I would prefer either DD + Siakam or OG + JV, plus whatever picks are necessasry.

    But if it makes me uncomfortable, that's probably what it will take to get a deal done.
    This is my stance as well, and I have a bad feeling that last clause might be right and the Spurs won't settle for less than DD + OG. At the same time though, I'm not sure where else they're getting an all-star plus prospects plus a 1st rounder for Kawhi from which is a big part of why the Raptors shouldn't include OG (or if we do, DeRozan should be out of the deal).

    Comment


    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
      Who cares if he isn't a head case, he's also not a good player... yet he still got $21M a year in a market where really only the Kings and Bulls could pay him.

      Yet somehow you guys think Kawhi Leonard, who's made it clear he wants to be in LA, been tracked by both LA teams for years, in an offseason where both will have max cap space, will not get paid his money next summer.
      Sure, if teams are determined to blow through their cap space, anything is possible. Biyombo and Mozgov are still getting paid. Looking at the guys the Lakers are paying you're right, they may not care at all.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

      Comment


      • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
        It doesn't matter. The Spurs had Kawhi's medical records as well. If he gets a second opinion and decides he doesn't want to play he won't play. This is a real risk that has to be factored into the valuation of Kawhi in the deal.

        That's why when you say people are underrating Kawhi you're off-base and out of line. Everyone knows that when healthy this is a guy who's better than every single player in the eastern conference. The problem is we don't know if we're getting him healthy, we don't know if we're getting him motivated, we don't know if we're getting him for more than year (we're likely not) and we don't know that if we give up DeMar, OG and more for him if we even ensure ourselves eastern conference supremacy next season.

        These are real things that matter. We can ignore them, or address them logically.
        I'm assuming, because it's what happens in every trade in NBA history, that part of the trade being finalized would involve the Raptors doing their due diligence on his health. This is a normal part of the process.
        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

        Comment


        • S.R. wrote: View Post
          Sure, if teams are determined to blow through their cap space, anything is possible. Biyombo and Mozgov are still getting paid. Looking at the guys the Lakers are paying you're right, they may not care at all.
          NBA teams have shown year after year that when they have cap space they will use it.

          There is no way in hell that in a summer where so many teams will have a large amount of cap space, that a guy of Kawhi's ability will not get a max, unless there is something that comes out definitively saying that he has long-term health problems.

          Comment


          • Barolt wrote: View Post
            I think it's worth keeping in mind though, with regards to character, Kawhi was the perfect team guy for 6 years prior to the injury.

            Which is more likely, he suddenly changed his entire personality, or the conflict with the team over the injury was more serious than we knew?
            It sounds messy. Messy usually involves two sides or more. What fractured the culture there though? Honestly though, I can't say the guy is a bad dude.

            Another logical position to take is after six years he wanted to control his destiny and that's not necessarily wrong. However if he has decided that he only wants to play for x y and z, that compounds the flight risk.

            People keep talking about Paul George as a comparison...If I was betting I would have taken him 8 times out of 10 leaving the Thunder. The fact that they got him for nothing is the part I like.
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

            Comment


            • thead wrote: View Post
              Character matters too. Admittedly I am not in the Spurs organization. It is held up universally, across the league as a model of excellence. Teams line up to hire their assistants. What don't we know?
              I think it was Windhorst who gave some indicators today. Very roughly paraphrasing, he said that Kawhi was questioning some of the moves the team made, that he also tended to question things whereas Spurs prefer the players to be good soldiers, and that Pop/Manu/Tony taking potshots really pissed him off.

              He also noted that IT coming back to play when he wasn't ready cost him $100 million, and there was some concern about that.

              To be honest, I'm not ready to write off Leonard's character when by all accounts he seemed to be a good kid before this season. I think he's been getting bad advice from his uncle. I also think it's sort of commendable that he's kept out of the spotlight rather than voicing his grievances to the media or passive-aggressively via social media the way a lot of players do.

              Comment


              • thead wrote: View Post
                It sounds messy. Messy usually involves two sides or more. What fractured the culture there though? Honestly though, I can't say the guy is a bad dude.

                Another logical position to take is after six years he wanted to control his destiny and that's not necessarily wrong. However if he has decided that he only wants to play for x y and z, that compounds the flight risk.

                People keep talking about Paul George as a comparison...If I was betting I would have taken him 8 times out of 10 leaving the Thunder. The fact that they got him for nothing is the part I like.
                If he wants to control his destiny, where better to do it than in Toronto? He can set his own legacy and never worry about any shadow, it's not a long road to being the franchise's GOAT for a player of his talent level.
                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

                Comment


                • Barolt wrote: View Post
                  I'm assuming, because it's what happens in every trade in NBA history, that part of the trade being finalized would involve the Raptors doing their due diligence on his health. This is a normal part of the process.
                  They can do whatever they like in terms of due diligence on his health. The Spurs have had him all of the past year, they've done their due diligence too. If he decides that he's not right to play then he won't play. Or even if he does play and doesn't want to be here, he might just go through the motions and have a down year, he's still going to get paid his max money.

                  And even if in the dream scenario where we send out DeMar/OG/1st and get back Kawhi and they give us Danny Green too, and Kawhi plays hard and plays his best for 82 games with no injury problems. Lowry/Green/Kawhi/Ibaka/JV is by no means guaranteed to beat Boston. That new team might be the difference between losing to the Celtics in 7 in the ECF and probably losing in 4 or 5 with our current team, but if we end the season with our dick in our hands and no finals berth, Kawhi will walk and we'll have seriously damaged our future for basically nothing. No blue chip prospect on the roster, no DeRozan to use to get young assets to start a rebuild.

                  Comment


                  • Like people just need to be really clear on the fact that they're talking about trading 7+ years of OG Anunoby and at least 2 years of an all-star wing in his prime (who could and would be an excellent trade asset in the summer of 2019) for 1 year of an unknown version of Kawhi Leonard. If that's cut and dry to you as a smart move, fine, but I just do not agree at all.

                    Comment


                    • You'll have a clear roster and two choices: chase some big name FA's for a quick reload or tank.

                      It's not that different than what would happen if you kept DeRozan. DeRozan is a security blanket but you give that up for a crack at landing a top 5 player, or you keep your security blanket and hope you find a different way to get better down the road - and there's absolutely no guarantee of that happening, either.
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                      Comment


                      • S.R. wrote: View Post
                        You'll have a clear roster and two choices: chase some big name FA's for a quick reload or tank.

                        It's not that different than what would happen if you kept DeRozan. DeRozan is a security blanket but you give that up for a crack at landing a top 5 player, or you keep your security blanket and hope you find a different way to get better down the road - and there's absolutely no guarantee of that happening, either.
                        It's very different. You've got no really particularly great prospect in tow and no great assets to use to acquire more young talent to start your rebuild.

                        We'd basically be setting ourselves up to do the bad version of a rebuild, which is where you just start off by losing and praying for a high pick. Rather than the Boston version where they got maximum value (obviously we can't expect to get quite that good of a return) for their aging stars and started themselves off with a great base of assets.

                        Comment


                        • Shaolin, you were really upset at the end of the season and calling for a full on tank job, arguing that our prospects like OG were weak and not something to build around and that our stars aren’t good enough. Now, an opportunity has presented itself to basically skip the tank job and get the superstar that you so desperately desired, and if doesn’t workout you get your tank a year earlier. Has your opinion changed? Because 2 months ago this is exactly what you would have wanted and you would have thrown OG and Demar at SAS no questions asked.

                          Comment


                          • Maury wrote: View Post
                            Shaolin, you were really upset at the end of the season and calling for a full on tank job, arguing that our prospects like OG were weak and not something to build around and that our stars aren’t good enough. Now, an opportunity has presented itself to basically skip the tank job and get the superstar that you so desperately desired, and if doesn’t workout you get your tank a year earlier. Has your opinion changed? Because 2 months ago this is exactly what you would have wanted and you would have thrown OG and Demar at SAS no questions asked.
                            No. I argued that our prospects BESIDES OG aren't that good. Which they aren't.

                            My opinion has not changed.

                            Comment


                            • Btw fwiw OG has changed his instagram and twitter pictures from pictures of him in a Raptors jersey to picture of him in an Indiana jersey. Also no longer says anything about the Raptors in his bios.

                              Comment


                              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                                No. I argued that our prospects BESIDES OG aren't that good. Which they aren't.

                                My opinion has not changed.
                                Weren’t you saying that OG will never be good enough to build around and that he wasn’t worth delaying the tank for?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X