Everything 2018 Off Season

[Maury]

Sounds like a few need to remember that Summer is not over, great weather is still on the way, cottages and beaches and BBQ's and beer are still out there to enjoy while we wait for the pre-season.

It rained yesterday in Vancouver

[LJ2]

Yeah, it's probably a junk rumour.

But I do think if the Raptors make an offer on Butler, it's an offer around excess contracts and prospects. But with the risk involved, they probably don't let Siakam or OG go in the deal, which unfortunately means talks probably never get off the ground.

Best offers I could come up with:

Ibaka, Green and Wright for Butler, Dieng and Tyus Jones: saves Minny 4M in salary, getting them under the tax, sheds them some long term salary (20-21 salary for Dieng is 17M), swaps PG prospects (they don't seem to like Jones at all), and gives them Ibaka for two seasons. Not sure they'd want that. Raps can throw in a 2021 pick, but doubt they do that unless it's heavily protected.

Miles, Green, Powell, Wright, Malachi for Butler, Dieng, Jones: saves Minny 7M in salary, gives them a couple upside pieces in Wright and Powell, and two expirings (if Miles opts out) as well. Malachi is for salary matching. Could use Brown instead to reduce the dead salary. Requires Minny to like Powell.

These are both not great offers, so unless the market is as dead as it was for Kawhi, or teams are scared off of Jimmy's rental status, or Minny really wants to send him East and ignores better offers from their own conference... Hard to envision this happening. Of course, Kawhi was a hope and a prayer, so...

One thing of interest... Green is eligible to be re-packaged in a trade as of the 18th of September. So if such a trade was a possibility this summer, it couldn't have happened until now...

Is it crazy that I'd be hesitant to give up the shooting and depth for Butler? The trade off here is OG's playing time where he can duplicate Butler's defence, the 3 point shooters we'd be sending out that fit better around Kawhi and depth, for Butlers mid range offence. I know Jimmy brings more to the table than just that, but overall I feel like we've got it covered with the roster we already have.

[DanH]

Is it crazy that I'd be hesitant to give up the shooting and depth for Butler? The trade off here is OG's playing time where he can duplicate Butler's defence, the 3 point shooters we'd be sending out that fit better around Kawhi and depth, for Butlers mid range offence. I know Jimmy brings more to the table than just that, but overall I feel like we've got it covered with the roster we already have.

I think the big factor in such a trade is not the on-court product (though with Kawhi and Lowry able to shoot from distance, and Jimmy being fine from distance, should work out very well), but the perception of providing another in-prime star to convince both to re-sign together.

[planetmars]

Forgot the link to the article the "rumor" is based on.

https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/03...-jimmy-butler/

Thanks for the link.. yeah lots of people like throwing stuff at the wall. I suspect Minny to hold on to Jimmy until the deadline. They can still get value for him by then. Minny's goal I believe is to just make the playoffs and Jimmy can help do that.

Until Jimmy flat out comes out and says "trade me".. he won't be traded.


And when Minny does decide to trade him they'll want a pick back. Something we can't really offer at this point. The 2019 pick goes to SA. Anything after that becomes too important for the Raps, especially if Kawhi walks.

[LJ2]

I think the big factor in such a trade is not the on-court product (though with Kawhi and Lowry able to shoot from distance, and Jimmy being fine from distance, should work out very well), but the perception of providing another in-prime star to convince both to re-sign together.

If it gets Kawhi to re-sign, then yes that should be of utmost importance.

From a purely fit perspective I'm not as certain. This would relegate OG to the bench or slot him into the PF spot which I don't think he can handle on a full time basis. Loss of depth, and 3pt shooting also not great. I guess you just acquire the elite talent and figure it out after.

[DanH]

If it gets Kawhi to re-sign, then yes that should be of utmost importance.

From a purely fit perspective I'm not as certain. This would relegate OG to the bench or slot him into the PF spot which I don't think he can handle on a full time basis. Loss of depth, and 3pt shooting also not great. I guess you just acquire the elite talent and figure it out after.

I'd prefer not to have OG starting at PF, but if it means getting Butler I'd roll with it, maybe start Siakam or Serge (if he's still here) on nights where the opposing frontcourt is particularly large.

I don't see a significant loss of depth. In the first deal:

Lowry-FVV-Jones
Butler-Powell
Kawhi-Miles
OG-Siakam
JV-Dieng-Monroe

In the second:

Lowry-FVV-Jones
Butler-?
Kawhi-OG
Ibaka-Siakam
JV-Dieng-Monroe

That's still a lot of solid depth. Not quite as much, obviously, but we'd be adding another top 15 player, so...

[Scraptor]

If it gets Kawhi to re-sign, then yes that should be of utmost importance.

From a purely fit perspective I'm not as certain. This would relegate OG to the bench or slot him into the PF spot which I don't think he can handle on a full time basis. Loss of depth, and 3pt shooting also not great. I guess you just acquire the elite talent and figure it out after.

Having Butler and Leonard on the wing could arguably be the greatest defensive wing combo in history. It could honestly rival prime MJ/Pippen on D.

I have long argued for giving the prospects lots of reps but the upside is so great that I would not worry about fit.

Plus Jimmy is a competitor in the same vein as Kyle. He's just a winner. I know it's just speculation but if Masai can find a way he should be all over Thibs, who seems to be weak on GMing anyway.

[LJ2]

Having Butler and Leonard on the wing could arguably be the greatest defensive wing combo in history. It could honestly rival prime MJ/Pippen on D.

I have long argued for giving the prospects lots of reps but the upside is so great that I would not worry about fit.

Plus Jimmy is a competitor in the same vein as Kyle. He's just a winner. I know it's just speculation but if Masai can find a way he should be all over Thibs, who seems to be weak on GMing anyway.

Jimmy is a real nice defender, but how much better is he than OG who is younger and getting paid a lot less? And OG is bigger than Butler as well which allows him to defend more positions. It's on offence where Butler really separates himself from OG, but with an alpha scorer in Kawhi, and a perfectly good second option in Lowry, do you think it's worth it to lose the depth/3pt shooters like Green, Ibaka, Miles, Wright? I know the answer should be yes, but it gives me pause when I think of fit.

[Hotshot]

“Chris Paul loves him, James Harden loves him... He gets the most praise out of anybody that comes through the gym.”

-#Raptors forward Pascal Siakam had quite the summer.

(Via @DaveZarum)https://t.co/WohESJ9ZWU

— Sportsnet (@Sportsnet) September 11, 2018

[Demographic Shift]

It rained yesterday in Vancouver

Climate change ? Or is this kinda typical of the west coast in the near fall ?

[KeonClark]

“Chris Paul loves him, James Harden loves him... He gets the most praise out of anybody that comes through the gym.”

-#Raptors forward Pascal Siakam had quite the summer.

(Via @DaveZarum)https://t.co/WohESJ9ZWU

— Sportsnet (@Sportsnet) September 11, 2018

Get your hands off my Pascal, houston

[Demographic Shift]

Thanks for the link.. yeah lots of people like throwing stuff at the wall. I suspect Minny to hold on to Jimmy until the deadline. They can still get value for him by then. Minny's goal I believe is to just make the playoffs and Jimmy can help do that.

Until Jimmy flat out comes out and says "trade me".. he won't be traded.


And when Minny does decide to trade him they'll want a pick back. Something we can't really offer at this point. The 2019 pick goes to SA. Anything after that becomes too important for the Raps, especially if Kawhi walks.

Agree...Lots of egg to wipe off faces if they try to move Butler now

Curious...do you think Jimmy ... who has an opt out player option next year ......would get a 1st rounder north of 18 to 20 at the deadline ? I think no..

[Maury]

Climate change ? Or is this kinda typical of the west coast in the near fall ?

It’s pretty typical. It’s gonna start raining a lot in the next couple of weeks and it won’t stop until may. Maybe we’ll get a bit of snow in December or January.

[S.R.]

Get your hands off my Pascal, houston

No worries, Pascal's on a better team than the Rockets right now. No way he gets dragged off to looooooserville.

#RapsRuuuule

[golden]

“Chris Paul loves him, James Harden loves him... He gets the most praise out of anybody that comes through the gym.”

-#Raptors forward Pascal Siakam had quite the summer.

(Via @DaveZarum)https://t.co/WohESJ9ZWU

— Sportsnet (@Sportsnet) September 11, 2018

Nice Raptors hype.