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  • #76
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm willing to write off the Dallas situation as an anomaly, or maybe a more aggressive Wade? Not sure why the league would think a Miami championship is the best outcome.

    As for Jordan on Russell, I wouldn't call it an obvious push off. Looked like a perfect non-call to me. And does Jordan winning a 5 championships instead of 6, really make a dent in his league-wide legacy? Can't see it. The Bulls were the better team.
    I'll wrap it up like this: it's really one of 2 things

    A) the league manipulates SOME outcomes to create bigger stars, teams, stories, and untold millions for its wealthy old white billionaires that run it

    Or

    B) the league is so interested in fair competitive contests, integrity, plus the fan and the athlete that they would never dream of interfering, even if the result costs their old rich white billionaires untold millions

    Huh. Everyone calls the conspiracy guy crazy. I think it's even crazier to bury your head in the sand and be unwilling to consider it.
    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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    • #77
      3inthekeon wrote: View Post
      Anyone here ever ref organized basketball? I did many years ago in high school. Much more difficult than it looks from a La-Z-Boy.
      But if you don't see it, don't call it.

      Too many calls are reaction calls to head jerking, screaming out in fake pain and flops. Throw is calls based on the name on the jersey and whistles in the air before there is even any contact (sometimes when there even is none, hence the phantom call) and you have what most fans are pizzed about.

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      • #78
        3inthekeon wrote: View Post
        Anyone here ever ref organized basketball? I did many years ago in high school. Much more difficult than it looks from a La-Z-Boy.
        In university I reffed as a side job for some spending money. The top level I ever officiated was CIAU (Canadian university for non-Canadians) but mostly I did high school and some college. I would say that there were certain refs that had it in for certain teams or players and other guys who had obvious biases - whether it was in favour of home teams or the better looking girls or certain styles. There were also guys who were just crappy. And then there were the 'vets' who would get called in to ref certain games and they were there cause the powers that be wanted the game reffed in a particular way. I would guess that, to some degree, it's the same in the NBA.

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        • #79
          S.R. wrote: View Post
          How much national hockey coverage do the Winnipeg Jets get? That's a top 5 team in the NHL, they have two top 20 goal scorers (Leafs have one), they're Canadian, but Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver/Edmonton/Calgary all get national HNIC games ahead of them.

          There's your answer. As far as US national basketball media is concerned, Toronto is Winnipeg.
          At the risk of derailing this thread a little: If Winnipeg was in the Mountain Time zone, it would probably get HNIC priority about equal to Edmonton and Calgary. The problem with Winnipeg in regards to HNIC games is that their home games won't usually start late enough to be part of a doubleheader, and no western team, as it currently stands, has enough drawing power in the more populous central Canadian to displace a ratings-gold Toronto or Montreal game.

          It's a pretty great year to be a Jets fans otherwise, though. Would be pretty happy to see a Leafs-Jets Stanley Cup final even though the US TV execs would be very unhappy about an all-Canadian final without even the marketable name of a McDavid.

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          • #80
            This is such a great team to watch now too. I know I'm biased but I do have access to every NBA matchup - most of the time the other matchups don't come close to what we're experiencing with these Raps.

            But Leo is right - be like the Spurs - nothing wrong with flying under the radar.

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            • #81
              I've noticed that when coaches are talking (ex or current) they seem to give the Raptors more respect. Kevin McHale for example has been very accurate in saying that Casey has always been a fine defensive coach but lacked imagination with offence....until now. It's probably Nick Nurse who should get a lot of credit but Casey has the final say. A couple of years ago there was a clip on Youtube where Popovich came over to Casey after a mid season game and told him "you guys are going to the finals....I mean it, no bullshit". You can also tell that teams get up to play the Raptors....so I think the players and coaches know they are good. But the Celtics and Lakers have so much history they will always be media darlings, New York is the Mecca and until LeBron retires his every move will be adored. This sounds crazy but I don't think Golden State; quite possibly the best NBA team of all time gets as much credit or attention as they could. Tonight Kenny "the Jet" said he thinks Cleveland has a reasonable chance of beating them in the finals. Last nights pounding at the hands of Boston was because they were on a back to back and......."weren't into it!".

              I'm really enjoying watching this Raptor team develop. I love the fact that Kyle is just so obviously happy for Demar with his recent burst into stardom. What other team has a bromance like that? And we have two with Pascal and Jakob....and I really hope they both get to stay around for years because they have passion. What can you say about Delon Wright? Incredibly fun to watch. Is this team ever going to win a championship? Likely not. We aren't likely to land a "superstar", the refs always screw us in the playoffs (the umpires do it to the Blue Jays too in playoffs....I'm convinced) and Boston with all of their f'ing draft picks seem ready to build a dynasty. But I think the Raptors are doing things the right way and we can be proud of the franchise.

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              • #82
                KeonClark wrote: View Post
                I'll wrap it up like this: it's really one of 2 things

                A) the league manipulates SOME outcomes to create bigger stars, teams, stories, and untold millions for its wealthy old white billionaires that run it

                Or

                B) the league is so interested in fair competitive contests, integrity, plus the fan and the athlete that they would never dream of interfering, even if the result costs their old rich white billionaires untold millions

                Huh. Everyone calls the conspiracy guy crazy. I think it's even crazier to bury your head in the sand and be unwilling to consider it.
                I'm open to any suggestion, but I would need hard evidence to be convinced of a league-wide conspiracy. Until then, I'll stick with the simpler, more likely explanation....that refs aren't that good and sometimes make bad/dumb calls.

                Billionaire owners will still be billionaire owners, regardless of whether Jordan wins one less ring

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                • #83
                  Mitch P wrote: View Post
                  Is this team ever going to win a championship? Likely not. We aren't likely to land a "superstar", the refs always screw us in the playoffs (the umpires do it to the Blue Jays too in playoffs....I'm convinced) and Boston with all of their f'ing draft picks seem ready to build a dynasty. But I think the Raptors are doing things the right way and we can be proud of the franchise.
                  100% agree

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                  • #84
                    KeonClark wrote: View Post
                    I'll wrap it up like this: it's really one of 2 things

                    A) the league manipulates SOME outcomes to create bigger stars, teams, stories, and untold millions for its wealthy old white billionaires that run it

                    Or

                    B) the league is so interested in fair competitive contests, integrity, plus the fan and the athlete that they would never dream of interfering, even if the result costs their old rich white billionaires untold millions

                    Huh. Everyone calls the conspiracy guy crazy. I think it's even crazier to bury your head in the sand and be unwilling to consider it.
                    "Personal Foul" by Tim Donaghy.

                    https://www.amazon.ca/Personal-Foul-.../dp/061536263X

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                    • #85
                      Puffer wrote: View Post
                      I guess we need to take his assertions with a grain of salt (and the nba certainly made sure his credibility was nil)...but tim states matter of factly that they were ordered to make sure the new brooklyn Franchise with kg and pierce went on to face old foe lebron, and not the upstart and unknown group of feisty raptors in 2014
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                      • #86
                        Puffer wrote: View Post
                        KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        I guess we need to take his assertions with a grain of salt (and the nba certainly made sure his credibility was nil)...but tim states matter of factly that they were ordered to make sure the new brooklyn Franchise with kg and pierce went on to face old foe lebron, and not the upstart and unknown group of feisty raptors in 2014
                        Anyone read this? I'll put it on my reading list.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          I guess we need to take his assertions with a grain of salt (and the nba certainly made sure his credibility was nil)...but tim states matter of factly that they were ordered to make sure the new brooklyn Franchise with kg and pierce went on to face old foe lebron, and not the upstart and unknown group of feisty raptors in 2014
                          Well they fucked up pretty badly then. If Casey hadn't drawn up that final play on the wrong side of the court, we probably win the series.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                          • #88
                            The "star call" is enough to insinuate that the NBA wants to rig games or situations. A foul has a pretty big impact to the team committing it. They get to the bonus quicker. One of their guys will play less as they could be in foul trouble, etc.

                            I thought it would slowly go away with Stern leaving but it's still in the league.

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                            • #89
                              3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                              Well they fucked up pretty badly then. If Casey hadn't drawn up that final play on the wrong side of the court, we probably win the series.
                              Haha very true. I didn't like how quickly they fouled amir out of the game when he was rolling. But you're correct on that. Here's the exact quote anyway

                              According to Donaghy, Toronto is “not only going against the Brooklyn Nets but going against the league office.”

                              “They have a very talented team and have to be that much better than the Brooklyn Nets,” Donaghy said. “I have picked Brooklyn to win the series with (Paul) Pierce, (Kevin) Garnett, Joe Johnson and even Jason Kidd. When you look at the coaches – the referees are going to be more active to talk and respond to (Kidd) over (Raptors coach) Dwane Casey.” *

                              “What they do is they actually send in a representative from the league office to sit down with the referees at an 11 o’clock meeting in the morning where they go over game film,” Donaghy continued. “They will show the referees what they want called, what they want them to concentrate on, what they feel needs to be called or let go in a series to avoid any problems.”

                              Donaghy claims that the NBA rigged the manner in which the Nets-Raptors games are officiated in order to secure a matchup in the next round that would generate better television ratings. “In this situation, Brooklyn would be put at an advantage,” he said. “A Brooklyn-Miami matchup would bring great ratings and that’s what this is all about for the NBA and the league offices—bringing in as many dollars as they can.”

                              “As a referee, you get paid an enormous amount of money as (you) advance in rounds,” he added. “You’re being graded in every way you’re officiated. And you’re going to be graded on what they want you to call. So if they say ‘Kyle Lowry is hand-checking Deron Williams and we need that called’, you’re certainly going to call it. If you let something go, you’re going to be dinged with a missed call.”
                              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                              • #90
                                If you watch a lot of games, you see games being called differently. You see the same fouls either being called or being ignored depending on who is fouling who. There should be no such thing as "star calls" or "rookie calls." The league doesn't want the "stars" to be forced to the bench and they don't want small market (or non-US) teams to make it too far in the playoffs because people don't pay to watch role players win. If it's a small market team with a generational talent that everyone wants to watch, okay. It's a business. Not as bad as wrestling, but it's the entertainment business. It would be even worse if there wasn't so much money being placed as bets. As it is, bookies probably know how much to discount the Raptors chances based on league wishes for particular outcomes.

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