Game #69: Dalls Mavericks 115 - Toronto Raptors 122

[charlesnba23]

Chris Boucher time!!!!

[Ebonhawke]

Yeah, GS was brilliant + lucky in taking advantage of the cap spike. Even they are feeling the pinch though, their supporting cast is the weakest it's been since this run started.

Gets even weaker as Omri Casspi is apparently out for a week or so with an ankle issue as well.

[white men can't jump]

Yes, which is why I wanted to specifically point out that he did have 2 bad shooting nights , one of which was on a road back-to- back. I personally don't think having 2 bad shooting nights in 10 from deep qualifies as being "pretty bad" (but that's just my opinion), especially considering that aside from these two games, he was never a "minus" on the +/-, which is an indication that his defence made up for it when the shooting wasn't great inside the arc.

But I get your point. I also wish he was more consistent and had quicker/better decisions. One thing I noticed since the all-star break is that he's passing more, he's looking for it much more often, which I think it's the coaching trying to integrate him more into a motion offence. It feels like he's still getting used to it and that leads to some stalling/bad decisions, but he's also shown some good big-to-big action with JV, which is encouraging.

But you're skewing it again. He had 2 nights where he took multiple 3s and hit none. One night taking and missing one. And a couple of below 30% nights. And he had 6 games shooting below 40% overall. So 5-6 bad shooting nights out of 11 games.

It's fine. It's been a rough stretch of schedule. He came out fresh after all-star and then the schedule got really busy.

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[S.R.]

It's crazy that the GSW can keep Curry, Durant, Green,Thompson and Iguodala all on the same team but we have to worry about which big salary to dump so we can sign a Fred VanVleet .... Lowry and DeMar should volunteer to make "just" 20M each so we can keep the gang together a la the Miami gruesome threesome some years ago ....

Yeah, GS was brilliant + lucky in taking advantage of the cap spike. Even they are feeling the pinch though, their supporting cast is the weakest it's been since this run started.

[inthepaint]

Yes, if you take out the 2 games where he went a combined 0-6, and ignore the bad shooting inside the arc, it's easy to make him look good. He had 3 games without hitting a 3 and another couple of games shooting below 30%. He's had 6 games out of 11 shooting below 40% overall. His D has been inconsistent as well.

Serge brings good things when he's fresh. A bit low IQ offensively at times, but as long as he's converting on his easy looks that involve little decision making, he's fine.

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Yes, which is why I wanted to specifically point out that he did have 2 bad shooting nights , one of which was on a road back-to- back. I personally don't think having 2 bad shooting nights in 10 from deep qualifies as being "pretty bad" (but that's just my opinion), especially considering that aside from these two games, he was never a "minus" on the +/-, which is an indication that his defence made up for it when the shooting wasn't great inside the arc.

But I get your point. I also wish he was more consistent and had quicker/better decisions. One thing I noticed since the all-star break is that he's passing more, he's looking for it much more often, which I think it's the coaching trying to integrate him more into a motion offence. It feels like he's still getting used to it and that leads to some stalling/bad decisions, but he's also shown some good big-to-big action with JV, which is encouraging.

[white men can't jump]

Actually I was probably one of the few people not a fan of Ibaka for quite some time. Would have preferred Ilyasova (not as good as Serge, but a lot cheaper). I guess that's why my expectations of Ibaka are almost assuredly lower than most of this board.

Well I think most people knew we weren't getting a $20M dollar player and 3rd all star. He was still the best option on the market probably. And on fresh nights he can still play like a fringe all star.

He's pretty much playing as I expected, and I always assumed our progress would depend more on younger guys and coaching, all of which have been positives this season.

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[white men can't jump]

Nope. I disagree. Through the winning streak Ibaka nets an overall +33 (against opposing team's starters for the most part), and 11.6 points. Out of the 10 games he played in the streak, he only had two bad shooting nights: the wizards game, and the second Detroit game, which was a second night of a b2b, on the road, and went overtime. Outside these two games, he shot 37.7% from 3 within the streak.

The physicality that he brings to the interior defence is the other thing that has been huge for the Raptors through the streak and throughout the year overall. That doesn't show on the stats. He will get a tech, throw a punch and get ejected from time-to-time, but he will certainly make opposing teams think twice before "punking" us. He's another shot-altering bruising force on the inside besides JV that we lacked for years at the PF. He may not pass the "eye test" sometimes, but without him, we would have almost certainly lost to Houston and Indiana, and there wouldn't even be an 11 game streak.

As far as being "up-and-down", just about everyone on the team has been, including Derozan, Miles, OG, Lowry, and to a less extent Delon, Fred and Yak, with bad games here and there. And that's the beauty of this team: we're so deep that every time someone has an off night, the final product rarely suffers.

I agree that Serge's impact on the floor is highly dependant on how rested he is though, probably more so than any other player on the roster. So I would rest the heck out of him leading to the playoffs, because we're gonna need him in the playoffs, as we needed him all year.

Yes, if you take out the 2 games where he went a combined 0-6, and ignore the bad shooting inside the arc, it's easy to make him look good. He had 3 games without hitting a 3 and another couple of games shooting below 30%. He's had 6 games out of 11 shooting below 40% overall. His D has been inconsistent as well.

Serge brings good things when he's fresh. A bit low IQ offensively at times, but as long as he's converting on his easy looks that involve little decision making, he's fine.

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[3inthekeon]

But who didn't like Ibaka to start the year? Many thought he was going to be a huge factor and were happy to have him. Not sure how big an anti-Ibaka crowd there was. If anything, dislike for him grew out of the fact that he has been inconsistent and there's been too many nights where he's not much of a positive or even a flat out negative out there. So people may be guilty of some confirmation bias now (and some hyperbole), but he played poorly enough to sway public opinion on him. He was never as divisive as JV or DeMar.

If he could sustain a stretch of good play, I'm sure criticisim would ease up or stop altogether. He hasn't helped his case in the last couple of months as many viewed him as a guy who could knock down shots and be an impact player on D. His D isn't always there since his energy/legs aren't always there, and he's shooting 31% from 3 since the new year.

Actually I was probably one of the few people not a fan of Ibaka for quite some time. Would have preferred Ilyasova (not as good as Serge, but a lot cheaper). I guess that's why my expectations of Ibaka are almost assuredly lower than most of this board.

[inthepaint]

Ibaka is very obviously struggling physically with the grind of a season now. He's been pretty bad through this win streak..."

Nope. I disagree. Through the winning streak Ibaka nets an overall +33 (against opposing team's starters for the most part), and 11.6 points. Out of the 10 games he played in the streak, he only had two bad shooting nights: the wizards game, and the second Detroit game, which was a second night of a b2b, on the road, and went overtime. Outside these two games, he shot 37.7% from 3 within the streak.

The physicality that he brings to the interior defence is the other thing that has been huge for the Raptors through the streak and throughout the year overall. That doesn't show on the stats. He will get a tech, throw a punch and get ejected from time-to-time, but he will certainly make opposing teams think twice before "punking" us. He's another shot-altering bruising force on the inside besides JV that we lacked for years at the PF. He may not pass the "eye test" sometimes, but without him, we would have almost certainly lost to Houston and Indiana, and there wouldn't even be an 11 game streak.

As far as being "up-and-down", just about everyone on the team has been, including Derozan, Miles, OG, Lowry, and to a less extent Delon, Fred and Yak, with bad games here and there. And that's the beauty of this team: we're so deep that every time someone has an off night, the final product rarely suffers.

I agree that Serge's impact on the floor is highly dependant on how rested he is though, probably more so than any other player on the roster. So I would rest the heck out of him leading to the playoffs, because we're gonna need him in the playoffs, as we needed him all year.

[G__Deane]

I think Serge played well when it mattered last night although I have been critical of him lately. I think he displays a lack of discipline at times, like when he was thrown out of a game recently, and his one game suspension by the Raps earlier in the season. And then he does seem to struggle on the second game of back to backs.

I don't want to lose him but we may have to make some room to re-sign FVV and if that is the case then he is the most expendable guy who may have some marketability. Assuming that Siakam's three point shooting improves, and the same with OG, then we may be OK next year with Siakam in the starting PF position. But that will weaken the bench unit.

It's crazy that the GSW can keep Curry, Durant, Green,Thompson and Iguodala all on the same team but we have to worry about which big salary to dump so we can sign a Fred VanVleet .... Lowry and DeMar should volunteer to make "just" 20M each so we can keep the gang together a la the Miami gruesome threesome some years ago ....

[wayner]

I think Serge played well when it mattered last night although I have been critical of him lately. I think he displays a lack of discipline at times, like when he was thrown out of a game recently, and his one game suspension by the Raps earlier in the season. And then he does seem to struggle on the second game of back to backs.

I don't want to lose him but we may have to make some room to re-sign FVV and if that is the case then he is the most expendable guy who may have some marketability. Assuming that Siakam's three point shooting improves, and the same with OG, then we may be OK next year with Siakam in the starting PF position. But that will weaken the bench unit.

[white men can't jump]

You're arguing against human nature. People who don't like a certain player see all their negatives, but few if any positives. The opposite if they do really like a player. Happened with JV quite clearly, and still does on occasion. Happened with DeMar. The beauty in the eye of the beholder thing.

You are correct in your analysis of him being up and down. But this was far from his worst game - I'm not saying he was good tonight, but he wasn't terrible either.

But who didn't like Ibaka to start the year? Many thought he was going to be a huge factor and were happy to have him. Not sure how big an anti-Ibaka crowd there was. If anything, dislike for him grew out of the fact that he has been inconsistent and there's been too many nights where he's not much of a positive or even a flat out negative out there. So people may be guilty of some confirmation bias now (and some hyperbole), but he played poorly enough to sway public opinion on him. He was never as divisive as JV or DeMar.

If he could sustain a stretch of good play, I'm sure criticisim would ease up or stop altogether. He hasn't helped his case in the last couple of months as many viewed him as a guy who could knock down shots and be an impact player on D. His D isn't always there since his energy/legs aren't always there, and he's shooting 31% from 3 since the new year.

[golden]

JV has been our 3rd(at times 2nd) best player since at least the new year, if not earlier. It hasn't really been close.

Ibaka was bad for most of tonight. Made a few big plays down the stretch.

Oh and JV's minutes have been going up slowly all season while Ibaka's have been going down. Makes sense for how their seasons have gone

*Not sure Serge has even been our 4th best player with how FVV has played better as the season's gone on.

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Ibaka is so damn inconsistent that it really stands out and makes a huge difference when he plays well. PF has become such a key position in the NBA and when Serge is rolling, we blow teams out. When he struggles, we can still win, but it’s a tight game. Similar thing with Pascal, but at least he brings the energy every single possession. If he develops a jump shot.... look out.

T-Rex has the top 4 correct. DD, Lowry, JV & FVV. After that I think it’s: Siakam, Miles, Poeltl and then Ibaka. Then OG & Wright.

[golden]

Probably in China. There's a graveyard of jv for ______ Christian trade targets

"Here lies Terence Jones. He fit the raptors system better"

Christian was wrong again. #ProvedUsRight.

[3inthekeon]

Don't know how much it has to do with liking a player.

Ibaka is very obviously struggling physically with the grind of a season now. He's been pretty bad through this win streak, which also happens to coincide with a really busy stretch of schedule with lots of travel and little rest. And it's late in the season with mental fatigue probably setting in a bit all around. He was great in December and has been a bit up and down since, again with him really not doing great over this most recent win streak.

Not too worried about him. He should get more rest/less travel during the playoffs which will help keep him fresher.

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I'm hoping we sit him against Orlando so that he's well rested for the Cavs game. We get a little 3-game homestand afterwards, then three days off before the Boston-Cleveland-Boston stretch (with a couple more days rest after the first Boston game). We can limit his minutes and maybe rest him another game after that (maybe one of the ORL-DET back to back games).

You're arguing against human nature. People who don't like a certain player see all their negatives, but few if any positives. The opposite if they do really like a player. Happened with JV quite clearly, and still does on occasion. Happened with DeMar. The beauty in the eye of the beholder thing.

You are correct in your analysis of him being up and down. But this was far from his worst game - I'm not saying he was good tonight, but he wasn't terrible either.