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What BC Needs to Do to Keep a Smile On My Face.

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Jose plays not to lose, Tony plays to win. It comes down to basketball philosophy. I want the aggressor.
    If it's a choice between the two, obviously you take Parker. But it's not, is it? We're not arguing who is the better player, because, hands down, it's Parker. The argument is whether Calderon could start on a contender, which he can. He has a very efficient offensive game, makes his teammates better and is a hard nosed player. I mean, he's certainly no worse than Derek FIsher, BJ Armstrong or John Paxson.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    TIm W. wrote: View Post
    They're very different players. Parker is obviously a better player, but is not the distributor that Jose is, either. I think you're completely underrating Calderon. He's not exciting, but he knows how to run an offense and make his teammates better. Quite simply, the Raptors played better when he was on the floor (as the earlier thread showed).
    Jose plays not to lose, Tony plays to win. It comes down to basketball philosophy. I want the aggressor.

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  • LBF
    replied
    jose i don't want to rip[ on you, but, it's time to go.


    plus, we can't get rid of a guy who has the audacity, the balls to tuck the ball under his armpit, bend down and tie his shoe in the middle of the game.

    i mean, there is just no comparison.

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think you're completely overrating Jose Calderon. Tony Parker is one of the most aggressive PGs in the league. Tony Parker plays to win, Jose Calderon plays not to make mistakes. I think its an insult to Parker to throw him in the same conversation as Jose Calderon. Jose has achieved nothing the league besides a FT record. That would be far more impressive if he got to the line like Parker but oh well...
    They're very different players. Parker is obviously a better player, but is not the distributor that Jose is, either. I think you're completely underrating Calderon. He's not exciting, but he knows how to run an offense and make his teammates better. Quite simply, the Raptors played better when he was on the floor (as the earlier thread showed).

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  • Apollo
    replied
    I think you're completely overrating Jose Calderon. Tony Parker is one of the most aggressive PGs in the league. Tony Parker plays to win, Jose Calderon plays not to make mistakes. I think its an insult to Parker to throw him in the same conversation as Jose Calderon. Jose has achieved nothing the league besides a FT record. That would be far more impressive if he got to the line like Parker but oh well...

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    What contender? The Lakers maybe? Can't think of anyone outside of them.
    I'm not referring to present teams, although there are several he could start on, but the fact that if Calderon was on surrounded by the right players, he could be the PG on a contender. You switch Bargnani and Turkoglu with good defensive players and his lack of defense isn't going to be nearly as much of a problem. Tony Parker has never been a very good defensive player, but playing on the Spurs has helped hide that fact. Quite frankly, the most important people on defense are the big men.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    What contender? The Lakers maybe? Can't think of anyone outside of them.

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  • Tim W.
    replied
    Jose could most definitely be a starting PG on a contender, as long as he had better defenders around him. Simply put, he makes his teammates better, and that's a rare thing for PGs nowadays. All the stats support the fact that he was one of the few Raptors that made a positive impact on the team this past season. Two out of the last three Championship teams had below average defenders at PG.

    Now, I'm not saying defense is not important, and if it was up to me I'd get an entire team of players that played above average defense, but believe me, Jose Calderon is one of the least of the Raptor's worries.

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  • tonious35
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Losing Garbojosa is not a valid excuse. We're talking about grown men here, not children. Jose is accountable for himself. Did Jorge tuck him in at night and read him bed time stories as well?

    ... And TJ wasn't having a "mental breakdown". He expressed vocally his displeasure about not starting, that is all. Many other people have done so without being labeled as to having a mental breakdown.
    Hey, you never know. Human nature is human nature. Some people around 20-30 can be greatly affected by certain teammates being absent. Have you ever had a change in staff and after reflecting a few months after the absence of a teammate or coworker, you start to work a little bit differently in a negative way. There are times in life that even whom we thought are grown men definitely need guidance to overcome some important challenges in life. NBA players are like kids at times, even the All-Stars now.

    Maybe you are DA MAN + that draft poll you made kicks ass, and no personnel changes around you can affect your efficiency to get shit done.

    A kinda related example, Billups and the Nuggets. You will say because Billups shares the ball, his talent, experience (1Champ and FinalsMVP), and play style is what is helping the Nuggets. ITS MORE THAN THAT! What he is doing in practice, communicating, telling JR Smith and Carmello not to do dumb things on their free time, getting Karl's message to them player to player, etc. That's why he is leaps and bounds better than Iverson last year.

    No, Garbo is not the MAIN REASON our team is having issues, but wouldn't an non-injured Garbo be a positive factor to our team? THAT is what are team REALLY LACKS. We need more CHARACTER GUYS on this damn team to make a smile on our faces.

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  • CalibreMC
    replied
    "One more thought on TJ
    If you had a degenerative spinal condition and you had multiple scares where you were numb and unable to move do you think that would affect how you play the game? TJ has regressed a little, I think, because of the scares he's had. No one wants to be carried off the court frightened to death, numb and unable to move. Especially someone who's on his "third strike". "


    What does his "scares" really have to do with it? I mean I get it that his play has suffered from them, but his attitude doesn't have to. When (if????) he can learn to be a TEAM contributer, than opinions will change. He's being run out of Indy as we speak. He is a cancer on any team he plays for.
    Last edited by CalibreMC; Tue Apr 27th, 2010, 12:50 PM.

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  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    i admit i was really happy when Jose got the starting gig, and i think at that time, he rightfully deserved to get it. but for some reason, after he signed that contract, he went south.

    looking back now, i think Jose is more of a talker than doer, and he likes to manipulate the situation through words. Initially he did say he had no problem backing up TJ, but then in the offseason he goes to spain and starts telling people he wants to start. Im still convinced that the team is better with Calderon than with TJ at the helm but with our current situation, Jack is the man for the job.

    pts, rebs, ast theyre virtually identical, but where they differ i think is where it counts more. JJ had 60 stls last season while Jose only had 47. JJ has 241 FT attempts and made 204, while Jose had 104 and made 83. even if you consider the 12 games that Jose didnt play, i think the stats wouldve still come out to almost the same. Its pretty evident that Triano has much faith in Jack as with Jose, their minutes are pretty much split in the middle, and i think that what the issue is. The backup cant be playing the same minutes as the starter. I think once we get rid of Jose, Jack should play at least 30 mins a game and the backup (id go with Banks) can play 10-15 mins just to maintain the tempo.

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  • Apollo
    replied
    One more thought on TJ

    If you had a degenerative spinal condition and you had multiple scares where you were numb and unable to move do you think that would affect how you play the game? TJ has regressed a little, I think, because of the scares he's had. No one wants to be carried off the court frightened to death, numb and unable to move. Especially someone who's on his "third strike".

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Losing Garbojosa is not a valid excuse. We're talking about grown men here, not children. Jose is accountable for himself. Did Jorge tuck him in at night and read him bed time stories as well?

    ... And TJ wasn't having a "mental breakdown". He expressed vocally his displeasure about not starting, that is all. Many other people have done so without being labeled as to having a mental breakdown.

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  • tonious35
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Blogs.thescore.com

    That's so true. One of Jose's best skills is post game interviews. He could be a PR person. It would seem he chooses his words very carefully. I think back to the last year TJ was in town. He had that horrible injury, recovered but lost his starting job because of it. He wasn't happy about it and handled it the wrong way by whining to the media, which was then used as fuel for any future fires against him in the media. The season ended, TJ was in the process of being traded and Jose was talking new contract. What is the key thing he hit on that off-season after telling anyone who would listen during the season about how he had no problem coming off the bench, what ever was best for the team? Being a starter. He wanted to be a starter and hinted that if that wasn't granted he would go elsewhere. He thought no differently than TJ, but his communication was on a different level. He told the media what they wanted to hear during the season and then did a 180 degree turn when he had the leverage. Go figure.
    Tru dat, but I'm not completely blaming Jose for "earning" his contract that year. TJ was having a mental breakdown dealing with stingers and I'm sure he's becoming mentally unstable year by year. I always had a feeling the presence of Garbo on the bench (or in street clothes) always kept Calderon playing hard (or it was a contract year). When Calderon signed the fat contract and Garbo was permanently gone, there was no such motivation that can really push Calderon to play like he was paid $10/hr.

    Who knows what the chemistry was like back then? I believed if I was a Raptor player and I see Garbo working everyday in practice and Garbo angrily glares at me when I am slacking, I would oblige and practice harder and smarter.

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  • Buschfire
    replied
    RAPMAN wrote: View Post
    So you are suggesting with JJ running the point, we will win a championship? I personally think we have a better chance of winning a championship with Jose than JJ...

    I didn't say that, nor did I imply that.... notice 2006 attached to that quote...was JJ on the team on '06? I think not.

    BUT for the sake of argument, notice the poll today on the main page of RR is overwhelmingly in favor to keep JJ vs Jose...hmm wonder what that insinuates, but besides the point If I want to trade Jose I'm expecting, and according to what BC has been saying that they are going to be proactivley looking for a PG in the off season.

    As well if Hedu stays and we don't get a PG I think Turk running point with JJ could work too.... and that chemistry would work a hell of a lot better then what we did this year.
    Last edited by Buschfire; Tue Apr 27th, 2010, 11:51 AM. Reason: forgot quote

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