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  • KeonClark
    replied
    rocwell wrote: View Post
    Warriors' parade
    These guys are so tone deaf and not self aware.

    I'm sure KD and draymond will get on a Mic today and holla about sacrifice and challenge and perseverance

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  • rocwell
    replied
    Warriors' parade

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    Other Scott wrote: View Post
    Maybe the argument then is that MJ was more dominant in his era than Lebron has been in his. Comparing who can do what with what team has too many variables involved. It's not fair to knock MJ for not adapting his style for an era he never had to adapt to, and it's not fair to Lebron to say the sole argument is that he's won less championships when he's played with by and large worse teams against by and large better teams.
    Was MJ more dominant though?

    Another thing that goes overlooked to me is the lack of elite talent in the 90s. How many guys are top 20 all time from that era? Hakeem? Barkley? Compare that to Durant, curry, late kobe, late duncan,, harden..i think the league is more top heavy then it was in 1995

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  • Other Scott
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Agreed you can't play hypothetical and just plop Jordan or LeBron in the other era and just assume there'd be no adaptation to their surroundings. Elite is elite.

    And I say elite is elite is elite even for the bygone eras. Look at old clips of Bob cousey or Oscar Robertson. Other worldly skill. Give those guys today's training, nutrition, equipment, etc and they'd be top of the food chain point guards in 2018
    Maybe the argument then is that MJ was more dominant in his era than Lebron has been in his. Comparing who can do what with what team has too many variables involved. It's not fair to knock MJ for not adapting his style for an era he never had to adapt to, and it's not fair to Lebron to say the sole argument is that he's won less championships when he's played with by and large worse teams against by and large better teams.

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    A.I wrote: View Post
    Its dumb to throw teams or players in different eras and say they would suck. They are totally different eras and anyone would adapt in that era. If Jordan’s Bulls played in this era, no doubt they would adapt to the 3 point shooting because its heavily relied upon, players practice more shooting, coaches’ plays revolve more around shooting and so on.

    Most superstars in this era would dominate in any older era because how much the NBA has evolved. Sure the NBA was more physical back then, but 3 point shooting was a novelty. Since physicality was the norm back then, players like Lebron would adapt and not complain about as many soft calls. Curry would probably dominate because of his shooting, he would be shooting 3s, opponents will be shooting 2s. Durant would dominate in any era because he is 6’11 and plays like a guard.
    Agreed you can't play hypothetical and just plop Jordan or LeBron in the other era and just assume there'd be no adaptation to their surroundings. Elite is elite.

    And I say elite is elite is elite even for the bygone eras. Look at old clips of Bob cousey or Oscar Robertson. Other worldly skill. Give those guys today's training, nutrition, equipment, etc and they'd be top of the food chain point guards in 2018

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    People really have to be conscious of how the game changes.

    You could get by with just 2-3 scorers in the old days. Your other two guys could be functionally useless offensive players and it wouldn't matter.

    You know why GSW went small? Bogut was killing them in the Finals the first year they won because the Cavs were just cheating off him to shift their whole D to better defend the other 4 guys. So the small lineup became their top unit because that's how they could get 5 threats out there to put pressure on the D and open up space. That's how it works now. Whether you go small or not you need to force the D to respect all the guys on the court or else space disappears. It's hard to try to be a contender if you can't do that.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    TRex wrote: View Post
    It's funny how you keep talking about "3pt shooting" and keep ignoring the Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen effect.

    It's also like you're using the numbers to completely change the narrative. Carroll, Pattersson, Joseph, Ibaka...those guys are all AWFUL 3pt shooters.i don't give a damn about what the numbers say. Those guys couldn't make shots specially when their team needed them the most.

    Also, if the Bulls played in this era, you don't think they would be shooting more 3's? Kukoc and Kerr would shoot a lot more 3's, Pippen would shoot a lot more 3's and MJ i'm sure would perfect the 3pt shot.
    I'm not changing the narrative. We can only go by what actually happened. The Bulls teams didn't have shooting. They were bad at it even for their era. You can't just assume that they would automatically be significantly better in today's game because of its importance.

    You were arguing Jordan's Bulls would thrive without a handcheck rule and completely ignoring the changes in defensive rules other than that.

    This has been a discussion centered on the MJ vs LeBron comparison. I haven't seen you or anyone else make a compelling argument as to why LeBron would not win as many titles as MJ if you put him on those Bulls teams, or why MJ would do better than LeBron in this era on the same Cavs and Heat teams. Just bullshit narratives about "what a competitor" Jordan was.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  • The Great One
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Wow you just totally lack perspective.

    The 98 Bulls the that won shot .323 from 3 on 11.7 attempts per game. Kerr was the only great shooter, and he and Kukoc were the only regulars to shoot over 35%. And Pippen at .318 was the next regular and only other one over 30%. Very different game back then and you could not manage with that lack of shooting in today's game.

    The Raps team from 2016-17 shot .363 from 3 and 24.3 attempts. That is a massive difference in efficiency and volume. Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker, FVV, Ross, Patterson and Joseph all shot over 35%. And Carroll at about 34% and Wright at 33% weren't awful.

    They might still be a good team, but they would have massive issues as they try to make deep playoff runs with that lack of shooting.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    It's funny how you keep talking about "3pt shooting" and keep ignoring the Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen effect.

    It's also like you're using the numbers to completely change the narrative. Carroll, Pattersson, Joseph, Ibaka...those guys are all AWFUL 3pt shooters.i don't give a damn about what the numbers say. Those guys couldn't make shots specially when their team needed them the most.

    Also, if the Bulls played in this era, you don't think they would be shooting more 3's? Kukoc and Kerr would shoot a lot more 3's, Pippen would shoot a lot more 3's and MJ i'm sure would perfect the 3pt shot.

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  • A.I
    replied
    Last edited by A.I; Mon Jun 11, 2018, 01:40 PM.

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    TRex wrote: View Post
    Again, DeRozan last year averaged 27ppg. And it's not like the Raptors were loaded with shooters either. Who was the Raps best 3pt shooter last year? Carroll? Lowry? Pattersson? That team won 50 something games. Even the team that went to the ECF 2 years ago. That team wasn't loaded with great shooters either.

    I'm pretty sure Jordan's Bulls would be just fine if they played in this era - in fact i think they would completely dominate all these teams.

    Imagine Jordan against all these no hand check, soft defenses that they have now? He would average 50ppg no doubt.

    If a SG like DeRozan who can't shoot 3 can average 27ppg in today's NBA. Pretty sure Jordan could average A LOT more than that.
    Wow you just totally lack perspective.

    The 98 Bulls the that won shot .323 from 3 on 11.7 attempts per game. Kerr was the only great shooter, and he and Kukoc were the only regulars to shoot over 35%. And Pippen at .318 was the next regular and only other one over 30%. Very different game back then and you could not manage with that lack of shooting in today's game.

    The Raps team from 2016-17 shot .363 from 3 and 24.3 attempts. That is a massive difference in efficiency and volume. Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker, FVV, Ross, Patterson and Joseph all shot over 35%. And Carroll at about 34% and Wright at 33% weren't awful.

    They might still be a good team, but they would have massive issues as they try to make deep playoff runs with that lack of shooting.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  • Other Scott
    replied
    TRex wrote: View Post
    Again, DeRozan last year averaged 27ppg. And it's not like the Raptors were loaded with shooters either. Who was the Raps best 3pt shooter last year? Carroll? Lowry? Pattersson? That team won 50 something games. Even the team that went to the ECF 2 years ago. That team wasn't loaded with great shooters either.

    I'm pretty sure Jordan's Bulls would be just fine if they played in this era - in fact i think they would completely dominate all these teams.

    Imagine Jordan against all these no hand check, soft defenses that they have now? He would average 50ppg no doubt.

    If a SG like DeRozan who can't shoot 3 can average 27ppg in today's NBA. Pretty sure Jordan could average A LOT more than that.
    I think you're underrating Derozan a little bit. Obviously he's no Jordan or anything and he's got his problems with his game but he's absolutely elite at driving and scoring in the paint, even with a little bit of traffic (obviously a lot of traffic gives him problems).

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  • The Great One
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The hand check has literally nothing to do with this argument at all. Do you think LeBron would struggle in the hand check era? He would be barreling down the lane for dunks and layups all night long.

    You couldn't cheat off your man or play any kind of D resembling a zone in the old days. Sending help was a lot trickier than it is now and you couldn't just cheat off bad shooters to deny driving lanes. If Jordan didn't have shooters around him in today's game, he would find it very hard to to win, and as most teams in those days, the Bulls weren't exactly stacked with shooters.
    Again, DeRozan last year averaged 27ppg. And it's not like the Raptors were loaded with shooters either. Who was the Raps best 3pt shooter last year? Carroll? Lowry? Pattersson? That team won 50 something games. Even the team that went to the ECF 2 years ago. That team wasn't loaded with great shooters either.

    I'm pretty sure Jordan's Bulls would be just fine if they played in this era - in fact i think they would completely dominate all these teams.

    Imagine Jordan against all these no hand check, soft defenses that they have now? He would average 50ppg no doubt.

    If a SG like DeRozan who can't shoot 3 can average 27ppg in today's NBA. Pretty sure Jordan could average A LOT more than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    The one thing about Jordan is that he would perfect his 3pt shot if he needed to. Never seen a guy as competitive as he was. If it's a 3pt shot that would help you win then he's going to have one of the best 3pt shots in the game.

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  • Zainab
    replied

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  • white men can't jump
    replied
    TRex wrote: View Post
    Jordan, in today's no hand check NBA? He would average 50ppg in today's game lol. DeRozan who's a midrange/slasher type of player averaged 27ppg in a season. Michael Jordan is like 10x better player than DeRozan lol.

    As for LeBron being the better shooter, LeBron is the better 3pt shooter for sure but Jordan is the better midrange shooter.
    The hand check has literally nothing to do with this argument at all. Do you think LeBron would struggle in the hand check era? He would be barreling down the lane for dunks and layups all night long.

    You couldn't cheat off your man or play any kind of D resembling a zone in the old days. Sending help was a lot trickier than it is now and you couldn't just cheat off bad shooters to deny driving lanes. If Jordan didn't have shooters around him in today's game, he would find it very hard to to win, and as most teams in those days, the Bulls weren't exactly stacked with shooters.

    Leave a comment:

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