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  • #16
    For the sake of argument, for people whining, let's remember that over the last five years the Raptors have won more playoff series than any other team in the East except Cleveland. (Even if Boston beats Philly, they'll still only tie Toronto.) Saying that fans are going to disappear is stupid, just like it was stupid last year when Cleveland swept us then and everybody said fans were going to disappear, because fans don't go away when you're having great regular seasons and making playoff runs literally every year.

    In about six months the next regular season will commence and the Raps will reel off eight wins in their first ten games and you're all going to stop complaining because it's fun to watch your team win basketball games, so please all of you shut the fuck up about "this team can't win a ring" because ninety-nine percent of all basketball teams cannot ever win a ring, and to be honest this team has exactly one monkey on its back and it happens to be the single best basketball player of all time (and yes he's better than MJ was and playing in an environment that deflates his numbers as compared to MJ) so that's kind of forgiveable.

    And before anybody starts complaining about Indiana playing the Cavs better, they really didn't. Cleveland simply played them worse. The Raps and Pacers both contested about the same number of shots (46% for Toronto, 44% for Indiana) but Cleveland A) shot better against Toronto on contested shots than they did against Indiana (56 percent to 54 percent) and B) were just much less streaky than they were against Indiana. Against Indiana, everybody who wasn't LeBron had half a series where they shot well and half a series where they didn't; against Toronto they just all shot well all the time regardless of whether the shots were contested or not. When Cleveland's shots are hitting, they're a good team, and when Cleveland isn't scoring, they aren't. We just had the bad luck to get lengthy hot streaks from Korver, Smith and Love all at once after they spent many games being very bad, and it wasn't because we weren't defending enough of their shots as compared to Indiana. If they had shot like this against the Pacers that series would have been over in four games too.

    None of this means that I don't agree that the Raps have mental toughness issues (they do) or that the defensive rotations got really bad (they did) or that there needs to be some trading happening (Ibaka is $20 million of dead weight and needs to be gone as soon as possible, and it's probably a good idea to sell on Norm too). But, again, if the problem with the Raptors is that they can't beat the greatest basketball player of all time because they don't have a true superstar, well, superstars don't grow on trees, so you might as well enjoy some wins.

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    • #17
      charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
      That would be amazing if Casey win coach of the year and get kicked out
      If Casey wins coach of the year, you can't fire him. The publicity would be really bad. I think Sam Mitchell was saved this way too.

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      • #18

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        • #19

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          • #20
            charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
            Seriously if there is a way to trade DeMar, Lowry and Ibaka while keeping all the other rotation players and getting a good and deep team and picks, that would be the way to go. They won't win a championship with this core.
            Trading Demar, Lowry and Ibaka probably means eating at least 20M and yes, throwing in some picks we don't have, especially for Ibaka. You're not getting much back for the latter two, especially great picks that make the team mediocre but deep and talented. Their contracts have crewed the idea of blowing it up but having all these picks to build on and sell to fans.

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            • #21
              Realistically speaking everyone will be back except Fred, Lucas and possibly JV. Masai will have to wait a year until those bloated contracts are 1 year left and then he can get some valuable picks in return. Casey is gone and if he isn't Masai doesn't have the guts that I thought he had.

              What an embarrassment of an exit, even with the pathetic history on the line they cowered. This is something that I can't support as a lifelong fan. I'll see y'all when the rebuild starts.

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              • #22
                Hotshot wrote: View Post
                Same thing we do every year at this time: We wait for Masai press conference where he will probably won't reveal much.

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                • #23
                  sanyo wrote: View Post
                  Probably wont get another season like this for a long time... 59 wins was great but the East is emerging and we wont get a season like this in a long time.

                  It was a very fun regular season, just didnt make it in the post season... whatever happens will happen I guess.
                  59 empty, meaningless wins.

                  But good thing we got home court throughout the playoffs!

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                  • #24
                    charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                    What's next for this team?

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                    • #25
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      5 years of playoff futility with the Casey/DeRozan/Lowry core. Something has to give. Something should have given five years ago, when "Fuck Brooklyn" failed to come to fruition
                      I agree that we are at a point now where changes need to be made. Players, coaches, system...should be open season on everyone and everything.

                      However to say that we should have given up so early on is ridiculous. You only get so many opportunities to try and make a run and I have no problem with the Raptors embracing that opportunity. You're disregarding the best years in the franchise because it didn't work out. How would they have ever known if they didn't take the chance?

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                      • #26
                        LJ2 wrote: View Post
                        I agree that we are at a point now where changes need to be made. Players, coaches, system...should be open season on everyone and everything.

                        However to say that we should have given up so early on is ridiculous. You only get so many opportunities to try and make a run and I have no problem with the Raptors embracing that opportunity. You're disregarding the best years in the franchise because it didn't work out. How would they have ever known if they didn't take the chance?
                        To be fair, there was a lot of people on these forums who saw the writing on the wall, way back in 2013. That is, we lacked elite talent, so not tanking would come back to haunt us.

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                        • #27
                          LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          I agree that we are at a point now where changes need to be made. Players, coaches, system...should be open season on everyone and everything.

                          However to say that we should have given up so early on is ridiculous. You only get so many opportunities to try and make a run and I have no problem with the Raptors embracing that opportunity. You're disregarding the best years in the franchise because it didn't work out. How would they have ever known if they didn't take the chance?
                          How does changing a coach or swapping one key player (for something of value) equate to giving up?

                          I've never once suggested dumping assets for no return. I've never suggested leaving the team's future entirely in the hands of the draft lottery balls.

                          It's crazy to think that no other coach could have achieved the same level of success over the past 5 years, given the players, management and ownership that he would have to work with. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that another coach could potentially have gotten even more out of some highly talented Raptors teams, especially the last year or two.

                          I also don't think that trading away Lowry or DeRozan at some point over the past couple years would have lead to a significant decline for the Raptors, once you consider the return from the trade and the forced shift in game play and accountability (especially if DeRozan had been the one traded).

                          Have the past few regular seasons been fun? Absolutely.

                          Have I believed this team was going to succeed in the playoffs? Nope. Not after what happened with Brooklyn and Washington. I even called it before this series started - win game 1 or it was over, very likely a sweep.

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                          • #28
                            In my opinion, there are three options.

                            1) Bring the whole thing back, in spite of everything, and pray LeBron moves West, or that Casey improves his rotations and strategies in the playoffs, or that DeMar learns to play defence, etc. This seems unlikely, as it means going into the tax for a team structure that has proven again that they stood no chance of getting out of the East, regular season success aside.

                            2) Bring the team back, and fire the coach, get a new voice in the room. Also seems risky. Now you've got a new coach, which can go either way in terms of success, and are still lined up to pay the tax.

                            3) Drop the coach, and also break up the core. I doubt there is a move for Lowry or Ibaka, and I'd rather not stretch Ibaka's salary and have to deal with it for a few more years. DeRozan is probably the only core member that has real trade value. You could deal him for another flawed quasi-star, such as Wiggins, but that still leaves the team in the tax. More likely in my mind is they try to find a taker for DeMar who will send a prospect and pick and cap relief this way.

                            Some will ask where the option is to blow the whole thing up, and the answer is there isn't a way. The Raptors have to ride out the contracts of Lowry and Ibaka. JV won't return value even if they can find a trade for him. Miles might be able to get them something but I doubt it's much. And everyone else you'd want to keep. And even if they only kept those young guys, they are already too good to lose enough to tank, especially in this new NBA where teams are professional at that. There is no path to the bottom in the next two seasons. So if they do make changes, it will be to see where this team can go with a different coach or different headliner.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • #29
                              Nilanka wrote: View Post
                              To be fair, there was a lot of people on these forums who saw the writing on the wall, way back in 2013. That is, we lacked elite talent, so not tanking would come back to haunt us.
                              I was one of those people, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the best years of Raptors basketball. I'm not haunted by anything, I hate the way they went out as much as everyone else but I have no regrets that they tried everything in their power to make this a winning team and a respectable franchise. There isn't one formula to success. They swung and they missed.
                              Last edited by LJ2; Tue May 8th, 2018, 02:25 PM.

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                              • #30
                                MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                                We as fans are wiser and humbler.
                                Also read as "less trusting and jaded"?

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