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  • Other Scott
    replied
    Scraptor wrote: View Post
    How can hoping LeBron goes west be a team-building strategy?

    You don't think that the Pacers taking 3 off of the Cavs while we've lost ten straight is evidence that it isn't just about LeBron?

    Anyways Dan is right. We couldn't tear it down even if we wanted to. There are too many big contracts on our team and too little cap space out in the market.

    But I do think Masai will fire Casey if Casey doesn't win coach of the year. I think Masai cares about optics and will make an effort to show some kind of change. I think he will also work hard to move Powell or JV. But unless he can steal an unheralded player it probably won't mean much in the grander scheme of things.
    It's not just about Lebron. As I said in my post, it's about the Raptors vs Lebron. I think Lebron is beatable by other, worse teams in the Eastern Conference. I wouldn't be stunned if Boston beat the Cavs. But for the Raptors, the Cavs just play with too much confidence and the Raptors play with a sense of defeatism and I don't think that mental gap going to be overcome.

    If the Raptors can avoid the Lebron Cavs, then I think they still have a shot at making noise in the playoffs with this team, particularly with the internal improvement of Siakam, Anunoby and Poeltl in particular.

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    Joey wrote: View Post
    Also read as "less trusting and jaded"?
    In a way haha

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    I don't actually see Lebron leaving Cleveland. I mean why should he? The team was garbage in the regular season.. Their GM did some stuff as a hail mary during the trade deadline and the Cavs just swept their second round opponent in the playoffs. If the Lebrons get to the finals (and it's probably 60/40 that they will).. it's a good look on him.

    His wife and kids love it there.. and he basically gets to do whatever he wants. Can coach, run the team, etc. Has the perfect gig.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scraptor
    replied
    Other Scott wrote: View Post
    The thing is I really don't want to cheer for Boston, but if Boston beats Lebron and the supporting cast morphs back into pumpkins, it makes the Lebron moves West thing a lot more likely which does open the path up for Toronto a little bit. Yes, Philly will be better next year and so will Boston but I have more hope for the Raptors against them then any Lebron team. And let's not forget that the Cavs were like a Lebron buzzer 3 pointer from maybe not even being in the Raptors path this year, it's really the Raptors who have a lot of trouble with them, other teams in the East may be able to knock them off.

    If the young guys get better next year, we could be looking at close 60 wins again. That's still a Finals contender, I don't care what anyone says. Objectively I don't think this series proved much except Lebron 100% had Toronto's number. I think this team is still worth going into the tax for, I just hope MLSE agrees. (And judging by ticket prices they've been getting compared to what they'll get for a 40 win team, I don't see why they wouldn't.)
    How can hoping LeBron goes west be a team-building strategy?

    You don't think that the Pacers taking 3 off of the Cavs while we've lost ten straight is evidence that it isn't just about LeBron?

    Anyways Dan is right. We couldn't tear it down even if we wanted to. There are too many big contracts on our team and too little cap space out in the market.

    But I do think Masai will fire Casey if Casey doesn't win coach of the year. I think Masai cares about optics and will make an effort to show some kind of change. I think he will also work hard to move Powell or JV. But unless he can steal an unheralded player it probably won't mean much in the grander scheme of things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Other Scott
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    In my opinion, there are three options.

    1) Bring the whole thing back, in spite of everything, and pray LeBron moves West, or that Casey improves his rotations and strategies in the playoffs, or that DeMar learns to play defence, etc. This seems unlikely, as it means going into the tax for a team structure that has proven again that they stood no chance of getting out of the East, regular season success aside.

    2) Bring the team back, and fire the coach, get a new voice in the room. Also seems risky. Now you've got a new coach, which can go either way in terms of success, and are still lined up to pay the tax.

    3) Drop the coach, and also break up the core. I doubt there is a move for Lowry or Ibaka, and I'd rather not stretch Ibaka's salary and have to deal with it for a few more years. DeRozan is probably the only core member that has real trade value. You could deal him for another flawed quasi-star, such as Wiggins, but that still leaves the team in the tax. More likely in my mind is they try to find a taker for DeMar who will send a prospect and pick and cap relief this way.

    Some will ask where the option is to blow the whole thing up, and the answer is there isn't a way. The Raptors have to ride out the contracts of Lowry and Ibaka. JV won't return value even if they can find a trade for him. Miles might be able to get them something but I doubt it's much. And everyone else you'd want to keep. And even if they only kept those young guys, they are already too good to lose enough to tank, especially in this new NBA where teams are professional at that. There is no path to the bottom in the next two seasons. So if they do make changes, it will be to see where this team can go with a different coach or different headliner.
    The thing is I really don't want to cheer for Boston, but if Boston beats Lebron and the supporting cast morphs back into pumpkins, it makes the Lebron moves West thing a lot more likely which does open the path up for Toronto a little bit. Yes, Philly will be better next year and so will Boston but I have more hope for the Raptors against them then any Lebron team. And let's not forget that the Cavs were like a Lebron buzzer 3 pointer from maybe not even being in the Raptors path this year, it's really the Raptors who have a lot of trouble with them, other teams in the East may be able to knock them off.

    If the young guys get better next year, we could be looking at close 60 wins again. That's still a Finals contender, I don't care what anyone says. Objectively I don't think this series proved much except Lebron 100% had Toronto's number. I think this team is still worth going into the tax for, I just hope MLSE agrees. (And judging by ticket prices they've been getting compared to what they'll get for a 40 win team, I don't see why they wouldn't.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Joey
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    We as fans are wiser and humbler.
    Also read as "less trusting and jaded"?

    Leave a comment:


  • LJ2
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    To be fair, there was a lot of people on these forums who saw the writing on the wall, way back in 2013. That is, we lacked elite talent, so not tanking would come back to haunt us.
    I was one of those people, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the best years of Raptors basketball. I'm not haunted by anything, I hate the way they went out as much as everyone else but I have no regrets that they tried everything in their power to make this a winning team and a respectable franchise. There isn't one formula to success. They swung and they missed.
    Last edited by LJ2; Tue May 8, 2018, 01:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanH
    replied
    In my opinion, there are three options.

    1) Bring the whole thing back, in spite of everything, and pray LeBron moves West, or that Casey improves his rotations and strategies in the playoffs, or that DeMar learns to play defence, etc. This seems unlikely, as it means going into the tax for a team structure that has proven again that they stood no chance of getting out of the East, regular season success aside.

    2) Bring the team back, and fire the coach, get a new voice in the room. Also seems risky. Now you've got a new coach, which can go either way in terms of success, and are still lined up to pay the tax.

    3) Drop the coach, and also break up the core. I doubt there is a move for Lowry or Ibaka, and I'd rather not stretch Ibaka's salary and have to deal with it for a few more years. DeRozan is probably the only core member that has real trade value. You could deal him for another flawed quasi-star, such as Wiggins, but that still leaves the team in the tax. More likely in my mind is they try to find a taker for DeMar who will send a prospect and pick and cap relief this way.

    Some will ask where the option is to blow the whole thing up, and the answer is there isn't a way. The Raptors have to ride out the contracts of Lowry and Ibaka. JV won't return value even if they can find a trade for him. Miles might be able to get them something but I doubt it's much. And everyone else you'd want to keep. And even if they only kept those young guys, they are already too good to lose enough to tank, especially in this new NBA where teams are professional at that. There is no path to the bottom in the next two seasons. So if they do make changes, it will be to see where this team can go with a different coach or different headliner.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    I agree that we are at a point now where changes need to be made. Players, coaches, system...should be open season on everyone and everything.

    However to say that we should have given up so early on is ridiculous. You only get so many opportunities to try and make a run and I have no problem with the Raptors embracing that opportunity. You're disregarding the best years in the franchise because it didn't work out. How would they have ever known if they didn't take the chance?
    How does changing a coach or swapping one key player (for something of value) equate to giving up?

    I've never once suggested dumping assets for no return. I've never suggested leaving the team's future entirely in the hands of the draft lottery balls.

    It's crazy to think that no other coach could have achieved the same level of success over the past 5 years, given the players, management and ownership that he would have to work with. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that another coach could potentially have gotten even more out of some highly talented Raptors teams, especially the last year or two.

    I also don't think that trading away Lowry or DeRozan at some point over the past couple years would have lead to a significant decline for the Raptors, once you consider the return from the trade and the forced shift in game play and accountability (especially if DeRozan had been the one traded).

    Have the past few regular seasons been fun? Absolutely.

    Have I believed this team was going to succeed in the playoffs? Nope. Not after what happened with Brooklyn and Washington. I even called it before this series started - win game 1 or it was over, very likely a sweep.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    LJ2 wrote: View Post
    I agree that we are at a point now where changes need to be made. Players, coaches, system...should be open season on everyone and everything.

    However to say that we should have given up so early on is ridiculous. You only get so many opportunities to try and make a run and I have no problem with the Raptors embracing that opportunity. You're disregarding the best years in the franchise because it didn't work out. How would they have ever known if they didn't take the chance?
    To be fair, there was a lot of people on these forums who saw the writing on the wall, way back in 2013. That is, we lacked elite talent, so not tanking would come back to haunt us.

    Leave a comment:


  • LJ2
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    5 years of playoff futility with the Casey/DeRozan/Lowry core. Something has to give. Something should have given five years ago, when "Fuck Brooklyn" failed to come to fruition.

    I'm not even upset tonight. The last two years have been complete apathy, knowing the fun regular seasons were nothing more than a façade.

    As the saying goes, a leopard can't change its spots. Despite all the rhetoric, Casey, DeRozan and Lowry are who they are. The core needs to be disbanded.
    I agree that we are at a point now where changes need to be made. Players, coaches, system...should be open season on everyone and everything.

    However to say that we should have given up so early on is ridiculous. You only get so many opportunities to try and make a run and I have no problem with the Raptors embracing that opportunity. You're disregarding the best years in the franchise because it didn't work out. How would they have ever known if they didn't take the chance?

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    What's next for this team?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    sanyo wrote: View Post
    Probably wont get another season like this for a long time... 59 wins was great but the East is emerging and we wont get a season like this in a long time.

    It was a very fun regular season, just didnt make it in the post season... whatever happens will happen I guess.
    59 empty, meaningless wins.

    But good thing we got home court throughout the playoffs!

    Leave a comment:


  • psrs1
    replied
    Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Same thing we do every year at this time: We wait for Masai press conference where he will probably won't reveal much.
    Maybe we’ll get culture reset 2.0?

    Leave a comment:


  • Deems
    replied
    Realistically speaking everyone will be back except Fred, Lucas and possibly JV. Masai will have to wait a year until those bloated contracts are 1 year left and then he can get some valuable picks in return. Casey is gone and if he isn't Masai doesn't have the guts that I thought he had.

    What an embarrassment of an exit, even with the pathetic history on the line they cowered. This is something that I can't support as a lifelong fan. I'll see y'all when the rebuild starts.

    Leave a comment:

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