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  • Quirk wrote: View Post
    Yes, we could trade DeMar for another barely above average starter, with an equally expensive and long contract. But why would we do that?

    We're not getting Butler for DeRozan. We are not getting Kawhi for DeRozan. We are not getting a lottery pick for DeRozan. So what's the point?

    DeMar is a fan favourite, you don't trade him just to trade him. You trade him if you can get value for him. Which you mostly likely wont. The era of GMs that trade for "perceived value" is over. All teams have analytic departments now. if Masai can bamboozle someone, that would be great, we can all celebrate, but as I said, I'm not counting on it.

    The people that make SI lists are not GMs.

    If we don't trade him, then the best way to use him is have him be the third option. Every team in the league has a player better than DeRozan, most have two. IMO, the most likely outcome is he stays with the team as the third option, and I'm OK with that.

    So let's leave aside the question of DeMar's trade value, as this is not a thread about that.

    Assuming he stays. what role does he have in a Nick Nurse offence? Nurse has been very clear that he believes in post scoring and threes. Assuming no roster major changes, this means JV and Lowry will be the teams offensive focus, leaving DeMar as the third option. Nurse will not change his offensive philosophy based on how much DeMar is paid, nor his "perceived value" in the league.
    Why could we not trade DeMar for a lottery pick, again? Do you have any idea what lottery picks have been traded for in the past?
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • Quirk wrote: View Post
      Yes Demar is a good player, which you send away when you trade him. The return will not replace this value.

      He is a good player, not a great player. A slightly above average starter. His contract is expensive and long. Therefor, you are unlikely to get a better player back.

      If you want to trade Demar away for another expensive, slightly above player, or worse, that is possible. But why?
      Slightly above average players are not generally named to ALL NBA 2nd teams....

      Take a knee..

      Comment


      • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
        There's one thing to keep in mind in usage conversations. Nurse hopefully won't want to stick to the ridiculous hockey subs Casey did.

        If you're staggering the rotation more, it might not mean much decline for Demar. He could still be around at least 26%+, and JV and Lowry can both go up. Personally I don't really want to see Lowry's much higher. Around 23-25% is probably about right if you don't want to wear him out.

        JV especially can see his usage go up quite a bit if he plays more with some bench units (that he has hardly played with at all in his entire career because of Casey's sub patterns).

        And all this is moot if Masai trades one or both all-stars away.

        Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
        I'm eagerly awaiting a Masai "shock the NBA world" move. Dude used to steal the show quite often. The Melo trade, the Gay trade, the Bargnani trade are all iconic. The last few years he's just kind of been...consistent...boringly consistent. I'm hoping before the weekend is over something huge happens
        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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        • Quirk wrote: View Post
          To protest the national anthem?
          Of course....

          Game

          Set

          Match...

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          • Quirk wrote: View Post
            If DD, according to you, is only valuable with the ball in hands, and therefore can't have less than 30% usage, and his production is not good enough to justify this usage? Why do you think would anybody trade for him? Who out there is eager to run their offence through him as there #1 options and give Toronto something valuable for that privilege?
            He has a lot of value to teams that do not have higher efficiency options. The Raptors were one of those teams in past years, I believe they are no longer one of those teams.

            That doesn't mean that there aren't any of those teams out there.
            twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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            • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              Personally I don't really want to see Lowry's much higher. Around 23-25% is probably about right if you don't want to wear him out.
              “I’m going to put the ball in his stomach a little bit more and have him run the offence,” Nurse said of the 32-year-old point guard.

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              • Yeah, moving DeMar to third option is a non-starter. The only way to reduce DeMar's total usage without hurting his contribution to the team is by reducing his minutes, not taking the ball out of his hands. And that doesn't seem like a path to success to me.

                He has a talent that is desired league wide - the ability to initiate offence, make plays, and score on his own. Just because the Raptors probably value that less right now doesn't mean they should force him into a role he doesn't fit in rather than capitalizing on the league wide need for that skill-set. Use him as they've been using him, or trade him. The middle ground is worse for all involved.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                  Of course....

                  Game

                  Set

                  Match...

                  Comment


                  • Comment


                    • That doesn't mean taking a buttload more shots. Just want him being the initiator of our offence more. That makes sense and doesn't have to mean a crazy high USG. For instance giving him the ball more could also help increase other players' USG, like JV who DeMar still ignores too often when he's open or has deep post position.

                      Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Yeah, moving DeMar to third option is a non-starter. The only way to reduce DeMar's total usage without hurting his contribution to the team is by reducing his minutes, not taking the ball out of his hands.
                        DeRozan 2016-17 usage is 34.2.
                        DeRozan 2017-18 usage is 29.2

                        Not sure why dropping him down to 22% or so is certain doom.

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                        • Quirk wrote: View Post
                          DeRozan 2016-17 usage is 34.2.
                          DeRozan 2017-18 usage is 29.2

                          Not sure why dropping him down to 22% or so is certain doom.
                          DeRozan usage + AST% in 2016-17: 54.9%.
                          DeRozan usage + AST% in 2017-18: 54.6%.

                          The ball wasn't in his hands less, he was just passing more often(which is good, but still doesn't give him off-ball value).
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            That doesn't mean taking a buttload more shots. Just want him being the initiator of our offence more. That makes sense and doesn't have to mean a crazy high USG. For instance giving him the ball more could also help increase other players' USG, like JV who DeMar still ignores too often when he's open or has deep post position.

                            Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
                            IIRC, He also said how he didn't like that Lowry was asked to give up shots.

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                            • Quirk wrote: View Post
                              DeRozan 2016-17 usage is 34.2.
                              DeRozan 2017-18 usage is 29.2

                              Not sure why dropping him down to 22% or so is certain doom.
                              Well, life doesn't work that way. His usage dropped partly because he was passing more out of sets where he was the first option. He was still the offence's primary option and initiator. Hard to get a limited (but slowly improving) passer like DeMar to run the offence and get his usage down to the low 20's without his turnover rate skyrocketing. The role he plays and the decisions he makes determine his usage.

                              Leave the ball in his hands, and his usage will stay above 25%, and his assist rate will stay above 20%. Take the ball out of his hands, and run the offence through other guys so that you suppress that usage for DeMar, and the plays where he's not a threat to score will hurt your offence, and the offensive gains that off-set his defensive drawbacks will not consistently be there anymore.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • If the amazing happens, we'll all celebrate. I'm just not counting on it. If anyone can find a GM to bamboozle it's Masai, but the league is smarter now that it was then.

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