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  • If the amazing happens, we'll all celebrate. I'm just not counting on it. If anyone can find a GM to bamboozle it's Masai, but the league is smarter now that it was then.

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    • The other problem with increasing Kyle's usage is looking at his ability to shoot 2's vs 3's -
      Last season Kyle shot 7.6 3 pointers per game @ 40%, which is fantastic
      He shot 4.5 2 pointers per game @ 47%, which is...not super efficient, he's lost a little bit of his driving ability with age and a tighter whistle last season.

      So to increase Kyle's usage percentage by 50% and still have him be efficient, basically what you're asking is for him to shoot >11 3's a game. Do you really think Kyle can find 4 more 3's a game beyond what the offense is already giving him?
      That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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      • Quirk wrote: View Post
        If the amazing happens, we'll all celebrate. I'm just not counting on it. If anyone can find a GM to bamboozle it's Masai, but the league is smarter now that it was then.

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        • Quirk wrote: View Post
          IIRC, He also said how he didn't like that Lowry was asked to give up shots.
          Said he had to give up touches and plan is to have the ball in his hands more.

          At this point in his career, Lowry is a worse shot creator for himself than DeMar is, and Nurse is supposedly a sharp offensive mind who values movement and shooting. So naturally he wants the best playmaker and shooter in our starting unit to have a more assertive role than last year, where the offwnct with the starters still stalled at times with DeMar initiating (or any time Serge got the ball). Don't think he wants him trying to force up shots, though.

          Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            Well, life doesn't work that way. His usage dropped partly because he was passing more out of sets where he was the first option. He was still the offence's primary option and initiator. Hard to get a limited (but slowly improving) passer like DeMar to run the offence and get his usage down to the low 20's without his turnover rate skyrocketing. The role he plays and the decisions he makes determine his usage.

            Leave the ball in his hands, and his usage will stay above 25%, and his assist rate will stay above 20%. Take the ball out of his hands, and run the offence through other guys so that you suppress that usage for DeMar, and the plays where he's not a threat to score will hurt your offence, and the offensive gains that off-set his defensive drawbacks will not consistently be there anymore.
            OK, so let's say we take that, and pencil him in at 25% (though I think it could go lower), if Lowry gets the extra usage, and JV stays the same. Also assume he looses some minutes, and JV gains some, this can easily mean DD is 3rd on the team in FGA. I guess Nurse would be OK with that.

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            • Quirk wrote: View Post
              OK, so let's say we take that, and pencil him in at 25% (though I think it could go lower), if Lowry gets the extra usage, and JV stays the same. Also assume he looses some minutes, and JV gains some, this can easily mean DD is 3rd on the team in FGA. I guess Nurse would be OK with that.
              But what is DeMar doing on the 75% of the shots that he's not taking in this scenario?

              Is he still initiating the offense as a passer? That works, but has limited playoff returns as we've seen.

              Is he standing in a corner? That actively makes the rest of the offense harder.

              This is the question Dan and I have been trying to ask.
              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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              • The other problem with increasing Kyle's usage is looking at his ability to shoot 2's vs 3's -
                Last season Kyle shot 7.6 3 pointers per game @ 40%, which is fantastic
                He shot 4.5 2 pointers per game @ 47%, which is...not super efficient, plus his FTA's were cut in half. He's lost a little bit of his driving ability with age and the a tighter whistle last season.

                So to increase Kyle's usage percentage by 50% and still have him be efficient, basically what you're asking is for him to shoot >11 3's a game. Do you really think Kyle can find 4 more 3's a game beyond what the offense is already giving him?
                That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

                Comment


                • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  At this point in his career, Lowry is a worse shot creator for himself than DeMar is
                  I guess the offence will depend less on players creating shots for themselves.

                  Comment


                  • Quirk wrote: View Post
                    I guess the offence will depend less on players creating shots for themselves.
                    True.

                    But expecting such an offence to a) have Lowry carrying a near-30% usage or b) to get value out of a player like Demar, is probably not realistic.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Barolt wrote: View Post
                      This is the question Dan and I have been trying to ask.
                      Good questions, and we will most likely find out next season.

                      However, if the idea is that DD must have 30% usage or he's a liability. the odds of finding a team that wants to give him that usage and is willing to give us valuable assets in return seem slim, so in this scenario we're trading just to trade him. Addition by subtraction. I'm not a big DD fan, and up until a couple of years ago I would have gladly traded him for nothing. Now I feel that he can play a role, so long as it's not a primary or secondary role.

                      We will find out, in any case

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        True.

                        But expecting such an offence to a) have Lowry carrying a near-30% usage or b) to get value out of a player like Demar, is probably not realistic.
                        Beyond what Dan is saying, defenses are starting to react to the Golden State era and become super switchy. Ball movement is less effective is defenses stick on shooters, switch when shooters screen for each other, and never double or help. If you don't have anyone creating shots to force help defense, then it's hard to open up those opportunities to find the open man through a free flowing offense, other than relying on the defense to screw up.
                        That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

                        Comment


                        • Quirk wrote: View Post
                          Good questions, and we will most likely find out next season.

                          However, if the idea is that DD must have 30% usage or he's a liability. the odds of finding a team that wants to give him that usage and is willing to give us valuable assets in return seem slim, so in this scenario we're trading just to trade him. Addition by subtraction. I'm not a big DD fan, and up until a couple of years ago I would have gladly traded him for nothing. Now I feel that he can play a role, so long as it's not a primary or secondary role.

                          We will find out, in any case
                          This really isn't complicated. We have hundreds of hours of evidence that states that teams do not guard DeMar without the ball in his hands.
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            True.

                            But expecting such an offence to a) have Lowry carrying a near-30% usage or b) to get value out of a player like Demar, is probably not realistic.
                            Well, if not 30, certainly could be more than 25, and more than DDs, especially in terms of total FGA.

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                            • Barolt wrote: View Post
                              This really isn't complicated. We have hundreds of hours of evidence that states that teams do not guard DeMar without the ball in his hands.
                              Yet, if we go with Dan's "minimum" of 25%, that is just a reduction of 4% from last year (smaller than the reduction from 2016-17 to 2017-18). Add some passing, and the ball is still in his hands quite a lot. Improve the 3 and things really change.

                              Comment


                              • Quirk wrote: View Post
                                Yet, if we go with Dan's "minimum" of 25%, that is just a reduction of 4% from last year (smaller than the reduction from 2016-17 to 2017-18). Add some passing, and the ball is still in his hands quite a lot. Improve the 3 and things really change.
                                But then we're back where we started:

                                The ball is always initiated through DeMar, and when opponents trap him in the playoffs, it falls apart.

                                As far as "Improve the 3", well... I wouldn't hold my breath.
                                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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