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  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Regarding the bold, one could argue that a "just go out and play" attitude stems from the coach. If coach is whining about non-calls, then players feel they can do the same. We're not exactly a team known for mental toughness.

    If coach is already more concerned with the next possession, players will follow Nurse's lead, and in time, tune out the unpredictable nature of officiating.

    The msg should be: focus on what you CAN control, because officiating is not one of them.
    Stop making sense. Old man wants to yell at a cloud.

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    • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
      Oh, no doubt. All those things you mentioned are good points, and may be true.

      There's another variable to consider as well: what's the impact of simply removing Demar from the team? A bunch of us here have argued for a long time that if you switched him out for someone like, say, Danny Green, the team would be better off overall. The past two games have certainly suggested this might be the case.
      I'm not sure I understand how removing Demar has suddenly made Ibaka shoot 90% from the field and turned Siakam into a monster. Ignoring the Demar/Kawhi switch, the team is a lot better around them - including Danny Green being far, far better than anyone could reasonably expect.
      That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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      • Other Scott wrote: View Post
        I'm not sure I understand how removing Demar has suddenly made Ibaka shoot 90% from the field and turned Siakam into a monster.
        These are obvious responses, and yes, you have to consider those things as well.
        "Stop eating your sushi."
        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
        - Jack Armstrong

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        • Other Scott wrote: View Post
          I'm not sure I understand how removing Demar has suddenly made Ibaka shoot 90% from the field and turned Siakam into a monster. Ignoring the Demar/Kawhi switch, the team is a lot better around them - including Danny Green being far, far better than anyone could reasonably expect.
          Ibaka and Siakam were two guys specifically who got themselves in a lot of trouble as soon as they tried to handle the ball in previous seasons. That's because the whole floor was more crowded with 2 bigs and DeMar, your highest usage offensive player, who's entire sweet spot was essentially anywhere inside the 3 pt line.

          Now there's one big on the floor at a time and no high usage DeMar trying to operate inside the perimeter. That guys like Ibaka and Siakam can now put the ball on the floor and get all the way to the rim without getting themselves in trouble is a direct result of these personnel changes (and in Siakam's case, continued skill development).

          Literally with most of Toronto's lineups right now, they can initiate with 4 guys on the perimeter plus a big setting a screen out at the perimeter, and none of the defenders can cheat without leaving a dangerous shooter open. This has never been true for the Raps before. Even last season, 2-3 defenders could sag into the paint with most of our lineups.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • S.R. wrote: View Post
            Ibaka and Siakam were two guys specifically who got themselves in a lot of trouble as soon as they tried to handle the ball in previous seasons. That's because the whole floor was more crowded with 2 bigs and DeMar, your highest usage offensive player, who's entire sweet spot was essentially anywhere inside the 3 pt line.

            Now there's one big on the floor at a time and no high usage DeMar trying to operate inside the perimeter. That guys like Ibaka and Siakam can now put the ball on the floor and get all the way to the rim without getting themselves in trouble is a direct result of these personnel changes (and in Siakam's case, continued skill development).

            Literally with most of Toronto's lineups right now, they can initiate with 4 guys on the perimeter plus a big setting a screen out at the perimeter, and none of the defenders can cheat without leaving a dangerous shooter open. This has never been true for the Raps before. Even last season, 2-3 defenders could sag into the paint with most of our lineups.
            The simplest answer I would suggest is simply that they have more opportunities than they did before. Part of that is probably attributable to Derozan's absence but I would argue that even more is due to Casey's absence.

            I would say the other biggest thing for Ibaka has been playing the 5 and being the sole big, as opposed to Derozan being gone. This is old school Ibaka before everyone tried to make him a 3-point shooter. He's getting a lot of easy looks at the rim on drop-offs, etc.

            As for Siakam, I think you are right that the offensive structure has lent itself to him being able to attack more but, again, I think it's simply more about him growing and improving and getting the opportunity. Maybe Nurse could have created the same situation with Derozan in place but I agree it might have been harder.

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            • RE: Siakam, it's also typical for NBA players to make a massive statistical jump in their third year.
              "Stop eating your sushi."
              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
              - Jack Armstrong

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              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                Regarding the bold, one could argue that a "just go out and play" attitude stems from the coach. If coach is whining about non-calls, then players feel they can do the same. We're not exactly a team known for mental toughness.

                If coach is already more concerned with the next possession, players will follow Nurse's lead, and in time, tune out the unpredictable nature of officiating.

                The msg should be: focus on what you CAN control, because officiating is not one of them.
                Nurse took a tech on Kawhi's behalf earlier in the year....

                it's just my guess but I imagine if the game had been closer in the second half that Nurse may have taken one to rev up the team and try and effect the officials but the game was over at the half so there really wasn't a need to. Speaking of, how Serge didn't get a tech was baffling - maybe the refs were so conscious about messing with him with all the fouls they felt like it was piling on.

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                • I was glad to see the Kawhi OG Siakam lineup last night, but I would rather throw JV or Serge for one of Delon or Kyle. They were not big enough, but they were quick enough (it was late too, so nothing was really happening at that point).

                  I've also liked what I see from how Nurse rests the starters strategically. I remember reading years ago that a common move was to rest a player over a timeout, switch of a quarter/half. The player might only rest for a short period of game time, but the player is actually resting for much longer.

                  Nurse has rested his starters a lot over the end of the 1st into the 2nd, and again from the end of the 3rd into 4th. Kyle might still be playing 35mins+ but he is getting good chunks of rest. Far more than the 13mins(approx) of bench time of the actual game.

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                  • Shredder wrote: View Post
                    I was glad to see the Kawhi OG Siakam lineup last night, but I would rather throw JV or Serge for one of Delon or Kyle. They were not big enough, but they were quick enough (it was late too, so nothing was really happening at that point).

                    I've also liked what I see from how Nurse rests the starters strategically. I remember reading years ago that a common move was to rest a player over a timeout, switch of a quarter/half. The player might only rest for a short period of game time, but the player is actually resting for much longer.

                    Nurse has rested his starters a lot over the end of the 1st into the 2nd, and again from the end of the 3rd into 4th. Kyle might still be playing 35mins+ but he is getting good chunks of rest. Far more than the 13mins(approx) of bench time of the actual game.
                    Only thing is, I start to fear certain points of the game when runs occur vs. the Raptors, or things become tight in the fourth. I felt that Kawhi/Kyle should've come back earlier vs. the Pelicans in the 4th. They waited a long time.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • First big "coaching loss" game for Nurse last night. Not a good performance at all. Now we wait to see if he learns from it and doesn't repeat it over and over again.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • #FireNurse

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          First big "coaching loss" game for Nurse last night. Not a good performance at all. Now we wait to see if he learns from it and doesn't repeat it over and over again.
                          Curious why you think this was a coaching loss.

                          Team was down several key players, including their best big, against a team who's best player is a big, and Kawhi dribbled the ball off his foot with 2-seconds left. They also missed a ton of 3's they should have hit.

                          Don't really see how that's a coaching loss.

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                          • themasao wrote: View Post
                            Curious why you think this was a coaching loss.

                            Team was down several key players, including their best big, against a team who's best player is a big, and Kawhi dribbled the ball off his foot with 2-seconds left. They also missed a ton of 3's they should have hit.

                            Don't really see how that's a coaching loss.
                            Because if he coached better they would have won easily. Left a dead in the water bench unit in too long, ran the offence through FVV for that bench unit AND for the unit he stuck around in when Lowry and Kawhi were on the floor, then ran isolation basketball down the stretch instead of running even the simplest of plays that had worked all game long.

                            Bad shooting nights happen. Injuries happen. Stupid coaching decisions shouldn't happen.

                            I'd also disagree with your assessment of who their best big is, but that's a whole other discussion.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Because if he coached better they would have won easily. Left a dead in the water bench unit in too long, ran the offence through FVV for that bench unit AND for the unit he stuck around in when Lowry and Kawhi were on the floor, then ran isolation basketball down the stretch instead of running even the simplest of plays that had worked all game long.

                              Bad shooting nights happen. Injuries happen. Stupid coaching decisions shouldn't happen.

                              I'd also disagree with your assessment of who their best big is, but that's a whole other discussion.
                              I'll have to re-watch the second half, he may have left the 2nd unit in too long (though I'm not sure what his options really were - Kawhi and Siakam ended up with 35 and 38 mins respectively).

                              There was definitely some ISO play down the stretch, but I don't see a dichotomy between ISO basketball and running plays. For example: they ran a number of plays for Kawhi in that fourth quarter where, to my memory, they ran more than reasonable actions to get him the ball in good spots (some weave DHO, some spread PnR with JV) and he chose to turn many of those possessions into ISO's. I don't have a huge problem with that either -- but I don't see how that's on the coach.

                              And frankly, Casey ran almost exclusively ISO's down the stretch. They would get the switch on Griffin, and then just post him from the 3-point line. We just didn't have anyone who could reliably stop him. I'm not saying Serge is better than JV in general (though I think he was their 'best big' for the purposes of covering Griffin), but it would have been nice to have him to throw at Griffin on a night where no one else could stop him.

                              Finally, while we're on the topic of JV: The majority of the run from the late 3rd to early 4th came as a result of them targeting JV in the pick-and-roll. Two games in a row now, when he is on the floor, guards are getting uncontested 5 foot floaters. I'm not really sure there's a solution here - JV isn't quick enough to defend the PnR any other way than dropping - but for as good as he is, he continues to be a liability on defence.

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                              • themasao wrote: View Post
                                I'll have to re-watch the second half, he may have left the 2nd unit in too long (though I'm not sure what his options really were - Kawhi and Siakam ended up with 35 and 38 mins respectively).

                                There was definitely some ISO play down the stretch, but I don't see a dichotomy between ISO basketball and running plays. For example: they ran a number of plays for Kawhi in that fourth quarter where, to my memory, they ran more than reasonable actions to get him the ball in good spots (some weave DHO, some spread PnR with JV) and he chose to turn many of those possessions into ISO's. I don't have a huge problem with that either -- but I don't see how that's on the coach.

                                And frankly, Casey ran almost exclusively ISO's down the stretch. They would get the switch on Griffin, and then just post him from the 3-point line. We just didn't have anyone who could reliably stop him. I'm not saying Serge is better than JV in general (though I think he was their 'best big' for the purposes of covering Griffin), but it would have been nice to have him to throw at Griffin on a night where no one else could stop him.

                                Finally, while we're on the topic of JV: The majority of the run from the late 3rd to early 4th came as a result of them targeting JV in the pick-and-roll. Two games in a row now, when he is on the floor, guards are getting uncontested 5 foot floaters. I'm not really sure there's a solution here - JV isn't quick enough to defend the PnR any other way than dropping - but for as good as he is, he continues to be a liability on defence.
                                Er, are we watching the same games here? JV wasn't even on the court for the late 3rd and early 4th. He sat down with a 19 point lead with 5 minutes left in the 3rd, and subbed back in with a 6 point lead with 8 minutes left in the 4th. Meanwhile, JV had a 100 DRTG while on the court in this game. The defence was not remotely a problem in this one - the offence was. Heck, the DRTG in the 4th Q and throughout the game was basically identical whether JV was on the court or not, in spite of JV playing the vast majority of the minutes where the Pistons had Griffin on the floor. For demonstration: the Pistons had a 109 ORTG with Griffin on the court while JV sat, and a 100 ORTG with Griffin on the court while JV played.

                                I don't know how to have discussions like this when our two realities are so different. I can't figure out how to address your position when you blame JV for runs that happen when he isn't even on the court.

                                I'll state my position again, I guess. The offence died because they didn't set enough screens. Not because they set screens that leveraged a switch or advantage that Kawhi chose to turn into an isolation. Because they didn't set the screens in the first place.

                                As for leaving the second unit in too long... if you play Kawhi and Lowry less together, and more apart, the second unit doesn't need to be in as long. It's not a matter of saying the minutes totals were high enough already - the question is where and when those minutes are coming.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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