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  • inthepaint wrote: View Post
    What FVV needs is Siakam, Poeltl and good CJ.

    Problem is, Poeltl is gone, Siakam is on the starting unit, and CJ is cursed/forgot how to shoot.

    He now has to adapt. Any time there's a system/chemistry change, there's a casualty. Last year it was norm, this year it's him. The difference is I think FVV will bounce back (but it will take time).
    It took one game for FVV to bounce back lol. Let's see if he can hold it through the road trip

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    • G__Deane wrote: View Post
      It took one game for FVV to bounce back lol. Let's see if he can hold it through the road trip
      So great to see him start and bounce back like that. Top scorer on the team last night. Thing is, any warm body would have done some damage to those Bulls last night. It was a great confidence boost, but yeah we gotta see him sustain it on his normal role with the second unit.
      2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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      • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
        The benefit to Casey's approach is the comfort the players find in the rotational consistency.

        The benefit to Nurse's approach is the 'shock' of changing the rotations might be a faster way of helping a player get out of a funk.

        It's too simplistic to say that one is clearly better than the other. It'll be interesting to watch wether this has a lasting effect on FVV's play.
        I hope the flexibility will allow our players to be ready for anything that's thrown at them come playoff time, rather than becoming so accustomed to one specific way of operating that may no longer synch up with whatever situation they find themselves in.

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        • Nurse always deploys his bread and butter high pick and pop between Lowry and Serge but I would also like to see some improvement with that play by having a cutter slide in near the basket. Nurse should encourage Serge to diversify and not be a black hole with that specific play by recognizing the cutter for an easy under the rim shot.

          The horn play is also one of his other sets he run offensively though sometimes against long athletic teams, it can result to an automatic turnover when a pass is made inside to the sliding player setting the pick. The other two players on the wings have to be ready to make corner threes when that pass is not available.

          These two plays can easily be scouted and prepared for during the playoffs against one team in a seven game series.

          I just hope he has some other tricks in his sleeve.

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          • I get the strategy to rest Kawhi on one of the nights of back to backs.

            That being said, are we risking the flow and comfort level of our collective group for one guy? I know he's THE guy, but we've talked about in length that once Lowry and Kawhi are more comfortable together we will be even stronger. Will that happen in due time when the roster changes so often?

            Also, if regular season really isn't that important and we continue to do this for quite awhile, when is Lowry going to get some rest. We've seen in the past that he can limp into the playoffs and that isn't good for anyone.

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            • Shredder wrote: View Post
              I get the strategy to rest Kawhi on one of the nights of back to backs.

              That being said, are we risking the flow and comfort level of our collective group for one guy? I know he's THE guy, but we've talked about in length that once Lowry and Kawhi are more comfortable together we will be even stronger. Will that happen in due time when the roster changes so often?

              Also, if regular season really isn't that important and we continue to do this for quite awhile, when is Lowry going to get some rest. We've seen in the past that he can limp into the playoffs and that isn't good for anyone.
              In the past he's been up at 37 minutes a night and led the league in minutes. He's down below 34 this year and that's with back to backs in 5 of 19 games, while we only have 7 back to backs in the remaining 63 games, meaning we should see a lot less unforced Kawhi rest going forward (ie, more opportunity to blow teams out and keep Lowry's minutes down).
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                In the past he's been up at 37 minutes a night and led the league in minutes. He's down below 34 this year and that's with back to backs in 5 of 19 games, while we only have 7 back to backs in the remaining 63 games, meaning we should see a lot less unforced Kawhi rest going forward (ie, more opportunity to blow teams out and keep Lowry's minutes down).
                That also means FVV and Wright have to step it up, or Nurse will be plugging Kyle back in, just so we don't cough up sure wins. Was that whole bench mob thing last year some kind of mirage?

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  That also means FVV and Wright have to step it up, or Nurse will be plugging Kyle back in, just so we don't cough up sure wins. Was that whole bench mob thing last year some kind of mirage?
                  Don't forget Lonzo "the closer") Brown - They leave him open, so he can knock down the corner 3 now (even though he serves that with some live ball turnovers)
                  2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    That also means FVV and Wright have to step it up, or Nurse will be plugging Kyle back in, just so we don't cough up sure wins. Was that whole bench mob thing last year some kind of mirage?
                    Of course not. The bench lineup last year was wildly different from this year's lineup. It doesn't have to be, but it currently is.

                    I've been advocating for some time to put another ball handler (Siakam) on the court with them, and a C (Serge) who can replicate what Poeltl provided defensively (quick twitch rim protection and fast transition play at the cost of rebounding). Instead we've completely shifted the lineup to be one that requires the ball handlers to be able to execute a PnR, and, spoiler alert, they aren't (Wright might be decent in the right situation but no more than that). Never mind the defensive end where their entire chaotic identity from last year has been abandoned.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      Of course not. The bench lineup last year was wildly different from this year's lineup. It doesn't have to be, but it currently is.

                      I've been advocating for some time to put another ball handler (Siakam) on the court with them, and a C (Serge) who can replicate what Poeltl provided defensively (quick twitch rim protection and fast transition play at the cost of rebounding). Instead we've completely shifted the lineup to be one that requires the ball handlers to be able to execute a PnR, and, spoiler alert, they aren't (Wright might be decent in the right situation but no more than that). Never mind the defensive end where their entire chaotic identity from last year has been abandoned.
                      If not the bench mob, then Fred's impact stats last year could be a mirage, because it's starting to look like he benefited more from being grouped with a very specific set of complimentary players in a specific playing styele rather than FVV's talent impacting and elevating those around him. Eye test this year seems to like Fred has almost zero probability of finishing at the rim against any half-decent challenge. He's been blocked savagely so many times that he isn't even trying to score on drives to the rim.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        If not the bench mob, then Fred's impact stats last year could be a mirage, because it's starting to look like he benefited more from being grouped with a very specific set of complimentary players in a specific playing styele rather than FVV's talent impacting and elevating those around him. Eye test this year seems to like Fred has almost zero probability of finishing at the rim against any half-decent challenge. He's been blocked savagely so many times that he isn't even trying to score on drives to the rim.
                        This is just another case of misattribution of impact stats.

                        Impact stats measure how effective a player is, in the role he is in, with the teammates he had. It adjusts for how successful those teammates typically are, but doesn't pretend to adjust for fit.

                        Freddy was incredibly effective in the specific roles and lineups the team asked him to play. That's what the impact stats said. It's why context still matters when looking at impact stats - ranking players by impact and assigning value based on that is foolhardy unless you are careful to look at the very least at role, nevermind lineup fit.

                        That all to say, the impact measure wasn't misleading - it just told us exactly what it told us: that Fred was great in those circumstances. We've removed him from those circumstances, mostly for no reason and seemingly intentionally, so it's no surprise he might struggle.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • golden wrote: View Post
                          That also means FVV and Wright have to step it up, or Nurse will be plugging Kyle back in, just so we don't cough up sure wins. Was that whole bench mob thing last year some kind of mirage?
                          In my opinion, what we should do is let go of the idea of trying to build a fully functional all-bench unit this year. We happened to have that last year, but the pieces are different now. Personally I think the focus this season should be on building a strong, staggered 8-9 man rotation with little drop off regardless of who's on the court (and that includes a fivesome of KL/DG/KL/OG/JV, like it's been suggested), ready for a deep playoff run. Basically have at least 2 (ideally 3) of Lowry, Kawhi, Green and Siakam on the court at all times, if at all possible, anchoring the other players.
                          2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                          • Kyle Lowry is like cheese whizz, he makes everything better.
                            He makes JV better when he’s on the floor with JV.
                            He makes FVV better when he’s on the floor with him.

                            If Lowry plays less minutes with certain players than he did in the past it will probably impact their impact stats.
                            Lowry is that good.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post

                              We've removed him from those circumstances, mostly for no reason and seemingly intentionally, so it's no surprise he might struggle.
                              Going to respectfully disagree with the no reason part. It’s still early and nurse is clearly trying to experiment with different lineup combos in the regular season. Also this team has had lots of injuries which forces his hand a bit. Delon weight and OG have missed a fair bit of time. Unless Nurse plays your boy Lorenzo Brown, FVV was going to have to play the point without Lowry on the floor at times.

                              Still lots of time left for Nurse to experiment with lineups and it looks like he will rather than stick with specific lineups like Casey did.

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                              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                                Going to respectfully disagree with the no reason part. It’s still early and nurse is clearly trying to experiment with different lineup combos in the regular season. Also this team has had lots of injuries which forces his hand a bit. Delon weight and OG have missed a fair bit of time. Unless Nurse plays your boy Lorenzo Brown, FVV was going to have to play the point without Lowry on the floor at times.

                                Still lots of time left for Nurse to experiment with lineups and it looks like he will rather than stick with specific lineups like Casey did.
                                At times, sure. Most of the time, his hand has not been remotely forced. Never mind that Nurse HAS been playing Lorenzo Brown (and Lowry, and Wright, and Kawhi) beside FVV and still has him handling the ball too much.

                                I have no issue with the experimentation, except that the current bench experiment is one that a) was always likely to fail based on common sense and b) has been showing that it is failing. There are so many actually viable options to try for the bench that aren't being tried that it can be frustrating. Maybe those are coming throughout the season, and that will be great. Or maybe this trend is showing an inclination on Nurse's part to use this "type" of bench unit, which would not be great. Hard to know for sure right now, but the fact remains that we have removed FVV from those conditions that he found success under, and the coaching staff is aware that he is struggling and is trying to find ways to fix that (publicly stated they plugged him in as a starter to see if playing beside Lowry more could get him on track) and yet haven't tried the common sense bench lineup very much.

                                In any case, my driving point is that we've removed FVV from his ideal conditions (in terms of role and in terms of lineups), and whether we want to assign logical reasons to that or not (I don't, but as evidenced, YMMV), that's a huge factor in his drop off in effectiveness.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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